This week on The What Podcast, we take a field trip to The Caverns in Pelham, TN - a music venue like no other. Located just 20 minutes from Bonnaroo's Farm, The Caverns offers an extraordinary experience, hosting shows underground in a breathtaking cave and on a sprawling outdoor amphitheater.
We sit down with Todd Mayo, the visionary behind The Caverns, to uncover its remarkable story. From serendipitous beginnings to becoming one of Tennessee's most captivating entertainment landmarks, Todd shares insights from his journey, including highlights from his new book, Caveman Chronicles. Whether you're a music enthusiast or someone interested in the behind-the-scenes challenges of running an independent venue, don't miss this deep dive episode!
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How The Caverns Became Tennessee's Premier Music Destination
I like to stand near the women's restroom and listen to the women come out and say,
oh my God, that's the softest toilet paper ever. And people are right about it on the reviews.
I was hoping you had a good ending for that. Yeah. I'm sure you were going there.
Welcome back to the what podcast I'm Barry. That's Russ. That's Brian.
We have a very special episode that we are all super excited about. This is another one of those
where we don't know what we're doing. We just came up with an idea and said, you know what,
let's do it. Let's take a step back, Barry. We have a rough sketch draft idea, which
pretty much means we don't really know. But basically what happened is Russ took the
bus up to Cave Fest in Pelham at the caverns. And my brain went, well, I know Todd. I know the
guy that owns that thing. Why don't we have him on and we'll talk about the venue. And we set it up
and he said, sure, I'll talk to you. And we had some miscommunication and we were supposed to do
it a month or so ago. And then maybe Wednesday of last week, I said, well, guys, the cavern is
sort of the reason to do this. So why are we going to do it on computer? How about we drive up there?
And he said, sure, come on. So you, the three of us drove up there Saturday, could hit have been
any prettier. Absolutely gorgeous. You know, I hate this. Yeah, I hate this time of year, but we are
right in the sweet spot of gorgeous, crisp, cool mornings. It was a really, really, really nice day.
And I knew this real quick, guys. The only factoid going in before we talked to Todd that I found to
be fascinating was we have eight, we've heard the number thrown around here over the few years of
8,000 caves in the state of Tennessee. And I just wondered, okay, there's rounding up or rounding
down. Where's that number come from? So I did a quick search to see who I was wondering, surely
that's got to be near the top of where of states in the country. But then I started thinking, well,
out West, you know, Colorado and near the canyon and all these are surely there's a lot of caves and,
and there are, but there's according to a Google AI response, 10,000 caves in the city or in the
state of Tennessee. And we are by far the most official sanction cave state in the country. And
now a cave can also be just like a little rock, Corey Cove, where some ducks live. That can be a
cave. But I knew I would have guessed Kentucky would have been the only other one close. I've
been here a long time and never would have thought we had the most caves and boy, did they find a
good one. And we talk all about it. And man, what a, what a fun, what a fun week. So yeah, because
it's a long show, we're not going to do too much talking to intro it. But I did want to tell you
guys, I got home and we were there a long time. We were there way longer. I mean, half a day.
I got home at like three in the afternoon. We left at eight 30 in the morning. I got home. And as she
always does, my wife drills right down to the point. I'm, I'm sitting on the couch and I'm like,
this guy's so cool. And we did this and we did that. She said, who books the shows?
You see that face right there? That's what I did. I was like, uh, I don't think I thought to ask that
question. Oh, the shows at the show at the caverns. Yeah. And I went, I thought you were talking
about this show. I was like, well, it depends on who you ask. And one day it is. I said, who,
she said, who books the con service? And I'm like, uh, yeah, I didn't ask. Didn't ask. We gotta go
back. Yeah. We'll see you next week. All three of us. And, and it's easy for me to say this now,
but at one point over the course of the last week that did cross my mind that I wondered who actually
was putting, cause I don't think Todd may have said, no, I know it's easy to say, I don't think
Todd Mayo sitting around burning the phones doing it. But it is him. So I texted him, I texted him
right away. I was like, geez, that's a great question. And I texted him and he said, me and Joe,
who you'll hear about his general manager, not only, and he said, Barry, you buried the lead.
He said, not only are we the only, you know, really independently owned venue of this size,
we're the only one independently booking shows of this size. That's pretty wild. Thank you.
I'm sorry to throw that at you, but I've been sitting on it since yesterday. Cause my wife is
so happy. She's like, I told you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's it. That's funny.
And it's huge, man. I mean, we're going to have to, we'll talk about that later. We're not going to
do it today, but think about that. Think about that. Well, and he, afterwards we talked with
some more specific numbers and stuff like that. That's not for the general public. That was just
a conversation amongst us and just the amount of time, effort, sweat, equity. And now you throw in
also booking the shows. I mean, every, every city, every place has venues, whether they're
brick and mortars or rock, Cori's or red rocks or wherever it might be. That's an outsource thing.
The booking of the shows is an outsource thing. And usually the, you know, that works out just
fine. That there's nothing wrong with that. But the fact they also do that, boy, they really,
he really puts a lot of work into this thing. And the passion is very real and very palatable.
Now we did ask to be fair. We did kind of ask how easy is it? Cause you can imagine, you know,
I mean, you're calling pick up the Rolling Stones, Bob Dylan, whoever, Hey man, do you want to come
play in a cave? That's an easier sell than, you know, you want to play in my venue. It's a, it
certainly wants the lore continues to build, which it's built so fast and such a small amount of time,
meaning 15 years. But, and I do, I want to throw some numbers out and then we're going to get right
into the interview because we're not going to do this too much. So the cave itself can seat
850 people in chairs. It standing it's 1200. We talked about the amphitheater, which is awesome.
I mean, it literally is two unbelievable venues. The amphitheater itself can do 6,000.
Really? Wow. Yeah. And he, they have built and Russ can speak to this and does.
So, and this is what's crazy. And they say, you know, ignorance is bliss. I didn't know anything,
you know, I knew fuck all about the music business. Can you cuss on here? I'm sorry.
Sorry. I won't try not to do that. But anyway, I didn't know nothing about nothing. But what I
didn't know was helpful. And within seven weeks, it was August. I didn't know you couldn't. I didn't
know I couldn't. Yeah. Barry. And so it was, it was August the 16th of 2008. So whatever late May is
the August eight, nine, 10 weeks, I called it blue grass underground, a book that'll put it on WSM
as a radio show right before the grand old Opry put up a website, brought up buddy of mine down,
Travis Stinson and the volunteer string band to do a, a acoustic test that convert confirmed it was
a very singular environment for sound. And I booked the steel drivers at the time Chris Stapleton was
their lead singer. So August 16th, 2008, whatever it was, I think 214 people paid $15 to see Chris
Stapleton and the steel drivers in a magic cave and yada yada yada. And so that's how it all started.
And it was a wonderful thing. A guy came to interview me at that first show from NPR from
WPLN in Nashville. And he gets to the end of the interview after the show, everything went well.
And he says, what's your real vision for this? And I said, well, I grew up loving PBS, you know,
Mr. Rogers, Sesame Street, but Austin city limits. I loved watching that. And as a young little,
little Todd wasn't old enough to go see live music, but little Todd could watch Austin city limits.
Nights on PBS. And it wasn't like the MTV stuff. It wasn't, you know,
culture club or Duran Duran or the, you know, the produced like music videos, artistic things. It
was just wrong. I am music. Yeah. And so that was my first experience of actual live music.
What's on television. So I said, God, I'd love to do a, a, a like Austin city limits from this cave.
And he said, well, actually I'm a producer for PBS. I said, what was your name again? He said,
Todd. I said, I can remember that. So we formed a company shook on it right then called Todd
squared, yada, yada, yada. And so that's how it all, he renamed it the cavern sessions. We've done
productions in Ireland and Australia and Cuba. And so it was really amazing. A year later,
we started music city roots and then we did scenic city roots back in Chattanooga, which is
the whole thing. That's where we first connected Barry. But so going fast forwarding a little bit,
I didn't own that cave. Um, we outgrew that cave. It only could seat 500 people. Um, it wasn't
necessarily conducive to doing a music venue. Its core business was not that. And the cave was much
further. So you had to bring in all the power and all the lights and all the sound for every show.
And then to top it all off, they were T totalers. They didn't let you sell a beer in that cave.
Can't make them try to make a dollar in the music business without a, a concession. And so there was
lots of different reasons that I needed to find my own cave. And so it was 2017, my right hand man,
Joe Lurgio, who is the general manager of the cave. Uh, best decision I ever made was hiring Joe,
just produced season 14. We renamed it the cavern sessions. We've done productive and you can see
behind this, there's this giant arch. Uh, and over there, it's the largest opening to a commercial
cave in the country. They say you could put the leaning tower of pizza in between from that span
to that span. I don't know if that's true. I don't know about that either, but it's, it is spacious.
Cave. You don't think spacious. You don't think spacious. Yeah, right. It's quite cavernous. Yeah.
The caverns, the caverns, the day. So, cause that's one of the things I wanted that you don't just
pick up one of those little booklets at the grocery store. Where do you find caves for sale?
Same question. Yeah. How do you find not just a cave, but a perfect cave for what you wanted to
do? You know, Barry, it was, you would think, and what I said to Joe, I looked over at him,
right hand man sitting right here. I said, Joe, there's 8,000 caves in the state. We got to find
one that's suitable. This was the first one we came to. And he had this caver friend named buck
that heard of this cave and he cavers are, you know, there wanted to be when she grew up.
Yeah. Yeah. And this wasn't on any map. You don't want to let too many people know about their
treasure. That's it. Yes. Exactly. It's, they're very, you know, and rightly so that like a good
fishing spot. You don't tell me that's it. Why are you going to blab about that for? So that's
exactly it. And so, um, they, he told us about this and Joe and I came out here. It was in August of
2017 and man, we walked into this cave and where the stage is now, we could touch the ceiling.
So it's now, you know, 24 feet under. So that's how much rock and dirt and people say, how do you
turn a wild cave into a music venue? And I tell them, well, that's about a three beer story.
There's some excavation there, I'm guessing. And my line is, uh, the gist of it is it took a lot of
geologists, hydrologists, archaeologists, biologists. And that's true. I have a good
friend who asked his daughter what she wanted to be when she grew up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And this
wasn't on any map. You don't want to let too many. Yeah. I just love that. That's it, man. That's it.
And so we brought in geologists and said, well, where's the floor? We got a drill. And thankfully,
the geologist said, look, man, this is nothing but, you know, about thousands of years of
flotsam and jetsam that's washed into here. So you can move that out. It's like, all right.
And then the hydrologist, this is a, a living cave. And when we get big water or big rain events,
it floods. So, I mean, it's, it's, it's wet and it's shaped in the shape of a bowl. So people have
kayaked, would go kayaking in this cave. And so, uh, when it fills up, so we had to figure out a
way to move the water. And so where we are right now, people can't see it, but there's a natural
sump where the water would go from here to here. And there's culverts right there. So those black
culverts, water nationally washes behind us. This is all part of what's called big mouth cave,
but the music venues in that part. And we send the water over to that part, which brings in the,
the biologist because the Tennessee state, uh, amphibian is the big mouth salamander.
Yeah. And she said an ist
biologist or a scientist salamander on the side of the board. I was so look salamander.
It's like, okay, fine. I'll look for the sound. Yeah, I'll find the sound there. She was,
it makes sense now. Well, and we had to bring in Dr. Neidermeyer and Dr. Neidermeyer said,
you know, Oh no. And the far from her harming the salamanders, you're helping them thrive
because you're sending more water, which is more organic matter, which is more
things for them to eat. And so we're like, okay, Dr. Neidermeyer, that's good. And, and, and, and
then there was the archeologist because we're in Cherokee and Woodland Indian territory. You can't,
you can't scuff your feet under the ground anywhere around here and not get pot pottery
or arrowhead. So, you know, we obviously didn't watch, you know, seeing the Brady bunch. We're
not desecrating any Indian. But we all know the Hawaii story, but, uh, you don't want that kind
of luck. But, but, but what, uh, the archeologist said is man, that the end, we had to make sure
that we weren't disrupting, uh, the salamanders. So now I understand the salamander on the side
have to go through all of those gists. And then one of the craziest things that, you know,
our first show was with Billy strings in March of 2018. We didn't break ground in here to move
the very first thing a dirt until nine months before. So you could pull a permit and Chattanooga
to build an outhouse in nine months. But we, we had this massive project where we, we, we literally
started off with little bitty mini excavators, cause that's all that would fit and little bitty
dump trucks. And then we would gradually get bigger and bigger and we moved all this dirt out. So the
parking lot over yonder is like 15 feet higher than it used to be. So it was moved dirt from point A
to point B, bring in three phase power, uh, uh, set your sump pump. So in the caverns, it's like
your basement, the water, when the, we have the big rain events and the water table filled and it
will flood. We pump it right out into here where Dr. Mead didn't bury their dead salamanders.
Help us salamanders. That's all we're doing. I know you have, you said you have all the gist here to
helping you out with this, but were you stressed out that some of these gists might be off a little
bit and some of this water might not divert the way you were hoping? Like, were you calm? Are you
a calm collected guy? Or were you nervous wreck? Like I would have been like, this isn't going to
work. Dude, I'm, I, I vacillate between Andy Griffith and Barney Fife. And so I can be calm
and collected. Other times I can be so nervous and I'm over like you tripping over the things,
you know what I mean? For those who didn't see, I was tripping over all of our equipment.
So it, that was my, one of my questions thinking back, driving up here is, I imagine you had to
get so many permits and so many people to sign off, but it sounds like everybody kind of wanted
to make it work. Barry, what is Chattanooga? Hamilton County? Yes. We ain't in Hamilton.
We in Grundy. We in Grundy. I get your point. And I'll tell you this, the people of Grundy County
are so awesome. Not only is it one of the most beautiful places. It's gorgeous. Fiery Giddermeyer
can be so happy that these salamanders are getting more food. That's all we're doing. I know you,
the people are can do people. I love it. And they know how to get things done. And they were so
receptive to us. And, and, and, but back to your point before about being nervous
and having some of these just go wrong, there's a good friend of mine named Elizabeth Bowling,
and she's out of Tullahoma and she's, my advertising agency used to have the, my big client was the
Ascend Federal Credit Union. And so I did the naming rights on the Ascend Amphitheater in Nashville.
And, you know, great folks over there, Kim York and wonderful people always sponsored all the
things that I was doing. But their, their chief counsel was a woman named Elizabeth. And Elizabeth
just became a friend of mine over years. She'd come to Music City Roots and we just got to be
buddies. I didn't know her family or nothing. But she said to me when I told her about there's this
cave in Grundy County, and I need your help. She said, well, you ought to talk to my brother.
And I said, why? And she said, he's in construction. And I'm thinking maybe he built
decks or something. And but I humor her because like people who know how to do things,
they're the caves, the beautiful Fertile Pelham Valley, the mountain, Montaigle,
the people are can. I do more work underground than I do above ground. Where do you want the cave?
I'll build you a cave anywhere. I said, no, no, no, okay. It was this serendipitous thing
where the rise in the person at the right time. And I could tell you tales of that happening over
and over and over. But it was Temple that made my that made turn me from Barney to being calm
because Temple is not only you know, I'm head in the sky and I try to be feet on the ground.
Temple is both. He's a dreamer, but he's a doer in doing some just some bio looking back at your
your career over the last 20 years. I noticed the word serendipity. Yeah, used a lot. Yeah,
you just use it a minute ago and I read it a lot. I mean,
it doesn't get much more serendipitous than this whole damn story. What my question here as far as
acquiring this property, which you've talked about a little bit in certain interviews and
publications about trying to be secretive and be carried caves, a very small group of people.
And I'm trying to do this. And so I get on the phone and his name is Temple moving from
McMinnville. Is that where the Cumberland Caverns were? And how do you approach a property like this?
This is a question as a guy who's just never done something like this purchase property,
sell property. If there's not a for sale sign right front, right. How do you approach saying,
hey, I want your land and you don't have to tell them why you want it. But, you know,
I'm sure that question might come up, especially like, what do you want my land for? Yeah. Well,
how do you navigate waters when it's not just like, hey, let me show you this new property.
I'm a real estate agent. I don't even. I googled caves for sale in Grundy County. There were so
many of them. I got so tired of these agents coming around and taking me to one. It was like that
episode of that, you know, where they go in by the house and they see three and you pick one.
Yeah. House hunters, cave hunters. Right. Was not like that. So yeah, I was just that kind of blew
my mind as to how do you navigate those waters and keep your secret, which is your vision,
long term vision, not in an nefarious way, just trying to be careful about at that point.
There's an old tale that I assume is true about Walt Disney and Walt Disney was bringing Disney
World to Huntsville, Alabama. Oh, and word got out in Alabama that Disney was coming to town and the
price of everything went up by quadruple in Florida. Thus, thus it became went to Orlando.
Happened a little bit now in Southern California, too. Well, that's right. Sure. And so I didn't
want to have Disney World. I couldn't let people know that Bluegrass Underground was coming here.
So obviously I had to do it on the DL. My friend Elizabeth helped me out and hooked me up with the
local real estate person. And honestly, it's a simple story. He found out who the owners of
the property was, went to him, made an offer to buy this. It's 13 acres. Originally was a 13 acre
plot. Nobody looked at this as a music venue or anything, but just a cave. They'd ride dirt bikes
around in here, do whatever. And they're just like, you want to pay me what for what? OK. And
then we did it. We did it. We did a due diligence on it where we had a not close to, you know,
close to yourself and not let not again and make sure it would actually before I closed on it.
Right. Did that diligence quick, bought the bought the bought the land and then and then
moved into the construction phase. How close is it today to what you
envisioned in 2018? And I'm and I'm we're going to talk about the outdoor
amphitheater because I remember you and I talked when you just discovered it. But I mean,
for people who've never been here, first of all, we're in Pelham, Tennessee for Bonnarooo fans. What
were we 15 minutes? Just down the road. Yeah, probably driven through here if you drive this
way to Bonnarooo. You would have had to. Yes. But I mean, you've added the road, the parking levels.
There's all kinds of different things. So what was your vision? What is that? Seven years ago
versus where you are today? Well, the original vision, it completely we did that in that nine
months and it was to have a day period to accommodate standing permanent lights, permanent
sound, concessions, parking and to basically recreate the experience that people had before
that they knew of us here in Grunty County. So but what from the inception, there was another
couple of visions and then there's been more that we'll segue into with the amphitheater.
But there's also another hole in the ground on the original 13 acres. And I looked at it's a
vertical hole. I said, Where's that go? They said that goes down into big room cave. So how do we
get there? Temple? He followed me. And we've went scrambling down there, like Gollum or something
down into the do this crowd. You know, we didn't even repel. We got down into this cave. And there
was like people that were like with helmets and repelling stuff. And they're like, How'd y'all get
down here? Where's your gear? I was like, I don't know. I was just following him. I'm scared of heights
and all that stuff. But but we went down into this cave. And it goes into this room called big room
cave. And it's got one room that's three football fields long. Okay, always wanted I thought of it
is like Red Rocks meets Ruby Falls. Yeah. And so I wanted to open up Cumberland Caverns had not only
the music venue, but the show cave. It was in the same cave, but always wanted to have a open up
that big room cave. And so in 2018, we opened this venue, we did this in 2019. And then of course,
2020 happened. And that's a whole nother story. But I always wanted to open up the show cave,
which we did open up July 4 2020. Okay. So let's let's talk about the amphitheater. So
this is one of the examples that I always use of a good thing coming out of a bad thing. Yeah.
Pandemic hit couldn't have anything inside there because couldn't couldn't get people together
two years into this idea. Yeah. And it was 2020 was set up to be such a great year. It's like,
Oh my god, this is going to be the year. And it was Arlo Guthrie was on Sunday night. And it was
that was our last show. And we had a whole damn it. I didn't want to know that. It was his last show.
And so I always wanted I thought of it as like Red Rocks. I love to see that. I could have had
Miley a Bonnaroo. But it was and at the time, I remember walking out of there and it was just
another good show. And that was on a Sunday. And then of course, it was that Thursday that the whole
everything shut down. Yeah. And it was I'll never forget it. But you called me and said,
we've got this crazy thing work and that we're trying to trying to make something work. I guess
you were walking around the property trying to figure out what you could do outdoors. And you
started if I remember, I'm gonna let you tell the story. But you told me you started digging up
there. Yes. Pretty soon you realized it was terrorists and you kind of thought well what
happened was I was I was in the cave this cave. So during the pandemic, when it happened in March,
and then in March, I thought, well, we just have to just reschedule some shows. This will be fine.
By April, we realized, oh shit, there goes our whole year. And we're about to go out of business.
And instead of further, he's never played since because he retired full scale into opening up
big room cave, we put all of our energy into that. And we opened up big room cave. And we started
doing tours on July 4 2020, right in the middle of the COVID. You know, wear the mask socially
distant, but it gave us something to do. Right. And it was interesting, we'll segue it later.
But it's also during the time of those dark days of COVID, when I started writing that book. And
what happened was, as I sat there, it was April of 2020. And I said, I'm about to go out of business,
about to lose everything. I don't own anything, the bank's own everything. I've signed personal
guarantees, my house, all this. It's an act of God or an act of Mother Nature. It's something
I can't control. And it's going away. And I can see it, I could just see that that was what was
going to happen. And I said, man, I've lived my dreams. I've lived my dreams in life, everything
I ever wanted has happened. And I'm writing that book that about my brother Denton,
he was born with a nostalgic streak. So all he ever wanted to be when he was five was four again,
for just one more. And people, we went full scale into opening up. And I'm the opposite. I'm always
looking forward. I never think about the past. I'm always into this and that and the other.
Mental illness. And so for the first time really in my life, I started contemplating my life
and the past and the things that had led to it. And just for real quick, you were how old in 2020?
I would have been 2020 was 48 years old. Okay, so right midlife crisis mode. I'm right there.
You know, you know, you know, well, man, that was the thing. It was just like in talking about,
you know, about right in there, you know, what is the difference between Providence, synchronicity,
coincidence, happens, dance or fate? And you know, somebody that great words, great words,
but like, what is the difference? You know, it's like if somebody's a young Ian or psychologist,
they might say, well, that's a synchronicity. Or somebody's religious, they might say that's
Providence. Or if they're agnostic, they might say that's coincidence. But what is it about life
when things seem day? You know, and we all like him. There's other forces at hand where it gets
easy. Now this is coming from a guy, one of the chapters in my book is called riding shotgun in
the fuck it mobile. And that was that was about my teenage years. Okay. And so I have I was in that
mobile looked a little different. And so like there have been times in my life where I felt like there
was a black cloud over my head where I couldn't do anything right, where I didn't do anything right.
And there's other times in my life where things just seem to flow. So reflecting and writing that
book, which I called the caveman chronicles during 2020 was very cathartic because it was but it's
amazing to look at because the book ends in like before the pandemic, like at the end of 2019 is
when the book ends. And all the things that have happened since then. And one of them was opening
up that big room cave on July 4. And so I told everybody we're going to become tour guides,
everybody that works here and I was a tour guide every day we'd get up and do tours.
So I was leading a tour out of here coming up right yonder when I got up and I could get myself
start paying to come together in a way Jason is bull Lucero, their booking booking agent,
great dude. And he says, Todd, have you seen what they're doing in Gisborne Park in the UK? And I
said no. And he sent me some pictures and I looked at it. And it was these pod based,
socially distant kind of amphitheater. And it kind of looked like just right outside the cave in this
field. And so I told you about one Todd, Todd Gerald, the production Todd, there's another Todd,
and he's Grundy County Todd, and Grundy County Todd. When he talks, we should get him on the
podcast. I love it. If you're listening, before he says something, he says,
Now I'm just talking. And what he means is you better freaking listen. Yeah.
Yeah. I could do this and a man could do that. So I grabbed Grundy County Todd,
and I said Grundy County, I don't come I say Todd, come over here and look out here. And look at
these pictures and look at this forest that's basically filled with giant trees and just looks
like this and boulders. And do you think we could do that? And he says, Now I'm just talking. I said,
Go on. And it was Andrew Colvin, Jason Isbell, Lucero, they're booking it could make a big brush
pal out of them others. And now I know them geologists. Now I'm just talking. But I know
the geologists go on the geologist say that this this is ISIL, glacial age rock and that you can't
it's tethered to the ground. But I think we could get an excavator and pick them big old rocks up
here. And I don't think they're tethered. Now I'm just talking. I just keep saying, Go on, go on.
And he says, I think we could do that. And then we got some dirt from over yonder. We could tear
this thing out. I'm just talking a man could do this a man could do that. He laid the whole thing
out. And I said, Not this man. But maybe you know this man. It sounds like a good old Tim Wilson joke.
Yeah. And and but but it is true. And it is a testament to the the the the power or the
serendipity or whatever you want to say of people coming around for a common goal. Because guys like
Todd Gerald, like Todd Smith, like Temple, like Joe Lurgio, like Ashley Jean, Joe's wife who came
in music city roots and like grace who was eight years old at Cumberland. You're damn right we can.
He says, But a man a man could felt this whole family of people that all buy in. And one of the
coolest things and I'm segue in here. But one of the coolest things you can do I can do that I love
is going on to the Trip Advisors or the Google reviews. And there's people that come from all
over the country. And yes, it's a magic cave and a magic amphitheater and all this great stuff.
And they'll just go on and on and on about the the the the you know, situation they had with a
parking attendant or a house staff or a bartender or anybody security. And it's just like this,
you know, we all go to music venues, we all go to music festivals, we all love it.
It's singular and it's unique to see such a family vibe. And I think that's due to the fact that
we're in Grundy County, Tennessee, and we get people from all over it's kind of like a lot of
city mice and a lot of country mice coming together to do something cool. And you know,
a lot of times when you go to venues, it's not their fault, not that they don't have good people,
but they're hiring security people and they're hiring concessions. So Gallasaurus Caverns now
runs are all of it for us. It's a family. And we talk about that a lot because part of what we
love about Bonnarooo so much is the attitude. It has that vibe. It's it's an ownership attitude.
It's a have a great day. Yes, you feel it like they call it the you know, the Bonnarooo spirit or the
the rules. And it's real. And you feel it as soon as you get there. And we've talked on the show
many, many times. If your ticket buying experience is positive, right, it's good from the start. If
it's bad, you've already got attitude. You know, you so you're going to start tending to think that
everything is going to lean towards the negative. Right. Starts that way. Right. Well, that's in
details, you know, but so is God. But just a hello and a smile and a good morning from the ticket
guy or the security guy. Yes, it's a good day. That was my experience because I came in for
Cape Fest last month. And yes, from the moment I come in and the other person directed me,
telling me where to park to, you know, walking up and, you know, buying a beer, just everyone I
interacted with it, it did feel like that family kind of thing. I love it. Yeah, it's outsourced.
This is just a job for us. It's a family. And we talk about blowing statistic about the caverns
is this 73% of all of our patrons come from outside the state of Tennessee. Oh, wow. That's
and so think about that. And so I've talked to Red Rocks and I've talked to the ramen and they're all,
20%. And so by that metric, the caverns is the country's largest destination music venue by far.
And you think about rocks is only 20% 20% Colorado supports Red Rocks to a huge degree.
A big state. A lot of people love that kind of stuff. Yeah, people don't realize. But when you
get into the music business a little bit, it's like Colorado is the number one music market in
the country by far. They support live music like they will. They will. They go to shows. They go to
shows. It's in their culture. They go to shows. And Nashville's used to actually not be a good
music market. It is become one now. Chattanooga. I used to laugh with Carla Pichard. I said,
everybody in Chattanooga is spoiled. They think that music should be a outdoors and be free.
She and I've had that conversation. You can go to the steel drivers.
With with Stapleton back in the day, the steel drivers were just at the three sisters here in
town in Chattanooga. And it's a great festival and it's free. And I love it.
But trying to be a promoter and go in there, people like you want me to pay money for this?
You know, it's like, well, OK, because I tried. We did do that. We did the Scenic City roots and
God, we had Stargell Simpson on that back when and we had Saint Paul. I was going to say,
I was going to ask people in the crowd. I'm going to work. Do you like the shakes?
No, we didn't bring them there. Not that I would. OK, John Oates. I remember because I
got a poster signed for my brother for Christmas. But I went to all those Scenics Roots show and
they were great. The track twenty nine first open. Yes, Adam and Monica, Monica, a Chattanooga
local venue that's that's now been mostly replaced. But I was like, that's when I first
heard of Music City Roots. And I was like, how cool is we're getting an offshoot of this? Yeah.
But as I went to all of them, because I had access, I could go to the steel drivers,
the with with Stapleton back in the day, the steel drivers were just and after a while, I was like,
oh, this is working either. My guy, Michael Jouzeski. Yeah, I know. Michael's my great friend.
Yeah, Michael and I. He was the guy that helped me in Chattanooga introduced me to people. So
Michael was who I was going through and I went to high school with him. OK, and you went to St.
Andrews or knew to Chattanooga with him? I knew to one. Yeah, he's he's bounced around. Michael's
my boy. Yeah. But Bluegrass is play a picker, a player. And I talked to him and he'll always be
like, good, not great. Yeah, right. Not great. Yeah. That's a good. That's a fine answer. Good
is fine. Great. Be better. I had this idea at the time because people say, where are you from? And
I say, well, I was born in the West schooled in the East and I live in the middle. And that
ain't California, New York and Kansas. That's Memphis, Knoxville and Nashville. Yeah. And so
I had this idea because Tennessee is such a musical state that there could be a Tennessee
music trail. So we actually did Scruffy City Roots in Knoxville, Bristol City Roots in Bristol.
So I had a connection in Chattanooga, obviously Music City Roots, the first one in Nashville.
And we were never got it off the ground. We were going to try to do both City Roots in Memphis
and unite it in this whole sort of live musical variety show. And it never did go. But it is funny,
man. Timing is everything. You look at Music City Roots YouTube page now, there's a half a
billion views, quarter of a million subscribers. We hadn't done a show in eight years. Yeah. And
we were, we were, we were live streaming when Netflix was still making people DVDs. I wanted
to take that exact thing I read the other day that that's a, that's a cool little just line to have.
We were live streaming when Netflix was still sending out freaking DVDs. So I've been, so that's
pretty cool for a caveman. I've been ahead of the cow carving somewhere. There's a caveman.
I understand your innovations. So you have two now really cool, really unique venues
that we've talked about audiences and we've talked about your staff. I have to believe that
musicians, once they play at once, want they, well, they want to come back. Inix City Roots
and in Chattanooga, obviously Music City Roots, the most unique venues that I know of. Well,
Barry, it's, you know, in the, in the music business world, they call them black boxes,
right? And they're just your normal music venue, you know, and somebody, I heard somebody say,
it was Jeff Mosier with blue ground under grass. Yeah. Jeff Mosier, Reverend Jeff Mosier. The
Reverend said to me one time, what is a music thing? Cause he was coming to the old cave and
he loved it. And it was, he's such an inspiring guy. And he was just like, oh my God, he was like,
what is a music venue, but a liquor store with a PA. And I said, wow, you know, and it was just
like, I know Jeff, but I know him enough to know that that's what he would say. Right. Right. Right.
And I was like, wow, you know, and it's like, there's so few, and that's not the disparaged
music, there's plenty of great music venues, of course, but having something that is, is unique
and something different for the, for the musician is, is, is wonderful, but particularly for their
fans. So, you know, the people that make a pilgrimage to come, the reason we have 73%
of people come from outside as they see their favorite band playing and an experience,
they want to unique and they tell their friends cause it's, it's one of the most unique,
it is not the most unique venues, which where this all direction will go. But to me, when I,
when I've heard about the cave idea from the Cumberland to this idea and only hearing about
it, reading about it, I didn't think that, I don't know, I didn't think it was going to be as
cool as it might be just cause I'd never been in a cave to see a show. I didn't know how well that
would work when the transition in during pandemic times, 21, 20, whenever that exact time with,
with the, with the amphitheater right above us over here. And then the adding the camping
options and the, and then the, the infrastructure that you've, you've built in with the yurts and
those kinds of things, right? Like that's that stuff you guys have done when that became a reality,
I started to look at it as like, this is one of the coolest sounding because the options just
right. I don't just have to go in a cave. That's right. It becomes a destination and go over here.
Yeah. Destination stop. And I have not still seen that entire field up there. Well, I will before
I get out of here. It looks awesome. It is awesome. I love an amphitheater. I want a boutique experience.
And so before we get too far away from the amphitheater, that when I said you got two unique
venues and it was when Andrew called me about that and Todd did is I'm just talking and all that.
We built an amphitheater in six weeks. We did it in six weeks in Jason. I told Andrew, you're not
efficient around it. We're going to count. It's going to I told Andrew, I said, you've seen the
field of dreams, ain't you? He said, oh yeah, of course. If you build it, they will come. I said,
if Jason is, if he comes, we'll build it. And so we did four nights with this one. It was kind of
the it was also always grateful to him and his team for coming and doing that because it gave us
the reason to do it. And then that built a bridge for us into twenty twenty one where we did almost
exclusively amphitheater shows. And then we looked around and said, no, wait a minute,
these covid times, just like the old pandemic in nineteen nineteen, nineteen nineteen turned into
nineteen twenty and that turned into twenty. You could get a broader view and realize this is all
going to run its course. Yeah. And we're going to have a six thousand seat amphitheater. Holy
shit. Show. And I thought probably more than I like a cave show. Yes. But with the farmer,
the Willis family, their field, fifty acres. So now we can park for six thousand people.
Now we've got campgrounds. Oh, wait a minute. Let's do a yurt village. So everything evolved
from the pandemic, from the darkest times when I thought I was going out of business.
And during the time I was writing that book, which was just it was interesting. I was taking an
interior deep dive into the past while in the present, the future was just unfolding one step
at a time in a way that I just wouldn't have believed. So going back to your question about
the original vision in 2018, this is far exceeded. That's why I was in the pandemic. And that that
experience was part of what happened. So it reminds you when you go through the cave,
the big room cave and you talk about the cave, you fear often holds the treasure you seek.
And, you know, a lot of times in life when you have darkness there, my grandmother used to say,
Todd, you know, maybe I was going through a tough time back then in that fuck up mobile,
you know, Brian, but she says, and now we've got this field. We did a long term lease with the
farmer, the Willis family, their field 50, because that's true. It's cliche, but it's real.
It's true. Cliche is for a reason. Exactly. Grandmothers know what they're talking about.
Does your going back to the staff just real quick, and I think I know the answer.
They've obviously bought in, do they come to you with ideas? I mean, are they like, we can,
you know, we move this or we could have that. Yes. Yes. Collaborative manager or organization.
It is. And I'll say this, and this is a real key to from an organizational standpoint and key with
me. Yes, I have a vision of things. And yes, I want to see things be the way that I want them to be.
But and I do believe that the devil and God are in the details. So one of the things, one of the
favorite things that I love, this might sound weird to some people, but it happens every show.
I like to stand near the women's restroom and listen to the women come out and say,
Oh my God, that's the softest toilet paper I've ever. Dodie, she says,
I was hoping you had a good ending for that. Yeah. I'm sure when you were going there.
I like to stay around the women's bathroom. So, but it's like, it's not just Charmin toilet paper.
I said we have Charmin Ultra with aloe. And it's just like, and there's a humidity in the cave.
And it's just like, look, you want, so I'm very much somebody that delves in the details of
everything. But to answer your question about how it's become fluid, as time has gone on,
I've let go to such an extent talking about other people and other ideas. And this is really the
key to doing something. Joe Lurgio is really the boss. So I've let go of all that. I don't do day
to day on GM manager and, and, and, but really he's like my partner and Joe, he runs the show.
So you can't have two bosses. So people talk to Joe, I'm behind the scenes doing things,
but really I've let go. And then there'll be things that I will constantly Joe and I'll talk
about them, but ideas, people will come up with aesthetic things, functional things, structural
things, behind the scenes, things, spreadsheet things, all kinds of different things. And I
love it because I want everybody to feel that this is, you know, this is like a work of art
that has become, even though it was kind of one man's vision to begin it, it's become a collaborative
and that's the thing that like, really I realized the more that you let go, you know, doesn't mean
that you can't have a Eureka Charmin Ultra, you know, toilet paper. Those ideas I still have
about doing things, but for the most part, you know, it's fun to sit back and let it all just
start evolving with the team. So I should have said this at the beginning. So we're sitting here
on a Saturday morning. The second group tour just, just is walking by. You might be able to hear them
a little bit on the microphone. So there's tours throughout the day. There is an EDM.
Would you call it like a mini festival? I don't know that it's a little mini festival. LS dream
is things that I will constantly Joe and I'll talk about them, but ideas, people will come up with
aesthetic things, functional, so people are camping and like you said, Russ, you camp with your bus
and then you walk, what'd you say? Five minutes. Yeah. It's a walk down that beautiful trail. Yeah,
so my point is there's a going to be yoga classes going on. Yes. So my point is, is there's a lot of
things going on, not just a Saturday night show or a Friday night show. We can activate the caverns
and this is true. You think about Bonnarooo, Bonnarooo is once a year. There's the cup. There's no music
venue in the country and we're boutique size, but we can, we can do a festival of 6,000 people
camping anytime and so, or we can do things like tonight. It's just the cave. So it's 1200 people,
1200 people camping, you know, activating. There's a be yoga at 11, yoga at one sound baths. So
there's you had a sound bath. What's a sound bath? You're going to find out today. If you want to
stick around, you're bathed in sound and they're doing a two night run as far as I could have guessed.
Yeah. They actually throw a big bucket of water on ice water.
Somebody screams in your ear and throws a bunch of water. Call it a sound bath,
but there's lots going on is the point. So that's, it's very, very cool. Yeah. Um,
I wanted to bring up cave fest real quick cause I was there last month. Yeah. It was great. We
were there all weekend and I want to talk about on Sunday, we walked up, uh, ready to hear some
music and then word got out that the power was out all over the, yeah. And, uh, it was, I'm going
to tell you, that's right. That's right. I'm sorry. I thought you were, yeah. And, uh, our first thought
was we'd better get some beer before the coolers, you know, get warm spoken like a beer spoken like
me. Yeah. So we did that. And then next thing you know, Jim Lauderdale comes out with his band
playing acoustic guitars just out in the middle of the crowd. One of the greatest music. That's
the guy that's going to figure that out too. That guy, that guy is dude. So here's a great,
great story about our team and our culture. And, um, I will say this, I'll tell a story then segue
into that, but before the COVID my biggest fear and I used to literally lose sleep over this was
one day, cause when we get rain, big rain events, we have a two inch pump and then an alarm will go
off and it'll automatically turn the three inch on. But then if that overflows that and we have
to kill the power, bring a generator and put in the four inch, but one day we're going to have
such a big rain event that the cave is going to flood and we're going to have to cancel a show.
And that used to be my biggest fear. And then the COVID happened and we canceled an entire freaking
year. And so the first changes of fear, right? The perspective that I have post COVID as a human being,
not just as a business, but as a human being. And I'm like, oh, so one day that's going to happen.
And we'll reschedule a show and it'll be that. So that going to the amphitheater, we're at Cavefest.
It's Sunday afternoon. It's about four o'clock, four 30. The John Prine thing. I was looking
forward to coming and seeing, but first my buddy, Lauderdale, I was having a beer sitting up on
ship mountain. That's a whole nother story. Here's a great, great story about our team and our
culture. And then the power goes, I didn't freak out one bit because I know Mike Parton, it's
the Quachie Valley electric and Joe Lerge, you know, they're going to do every thing they can do
to get it back on as quickly as they can. So what am I going to go bonny five on somebody
for no reason? Hell no. And so, and so, which is my nature, by the way. And so, so I go down to Joe
calmly. No, he had to come to me. He just was like, Hey, Todd, you want to know what's going on? I was
like, yeah, what is going on? He's like, he's like, well, we, we were a snake could have hit a
transformer. It turned out it was a tree, but it should be up within about 30 to 45 minutes.
And let's go tie sound. We'll go talk to Lauderdale and see if he wants to come down and play for the
people acoustic. Of course, Jim being Jim said, absolutely. And so when you walked up on that,
it was magic. And it goes back to the theme of earlier of sometimes the darkness, you know,
pivoting, whatever man, positives come out of negatives, man. But I'm tired. We can. Yeah.
And it could have been an opportunity for a freak out. And even the fans, there were some fans
sitting there. It could be couples next to me. And, and they were a little bit, they might have been
Yankees and this in the fence to people from the north, but they just kind of had a little bit of
a Yankee attitude or something like, yeah, well, what's going on? They kind of bitching. So I just
came over and started telling them that's my Yankee. What's going on here?
Yeah, we need your power. I want your power. I want your stuff. You know, like, you know,
but if you're listening to the fair enough, anyway, that's not it. I hope this doesn't.
This is podcast air north. It goes everywhere. So I've been loving on northeasterners recently. So
just refer to what I've been saying. If we need to, I'm a Yankee fan. I'm a New York, you know,
if they recognize themselves, then they deserve to hear it. But I went over to them and I told
them the story. I didn't, I said, Hey man, during the COVID times, we thought this and that it's
just like, Hey, have a little perspective. You know what I mean? Don't, but I know how it can be
as a, as a patron in your normal life. Cause you're expecting something. As anybody you're in traffic
and something happens. You just want to react to it. So it's just great to be non-reactive in
general. We did a specific moment was bad. One of our most, one of my favorite shows that we did
moon river had a similar, they got rained out on a Sunday canceled and the mayor, Tim Kelly called
and said, move it to Memorial auditorium. And they did some, the Holcomb's did some acoustic
stuff outside. Yeah, true. And Ellie wasn't quite as magical feeling as this probably was, but, but
Hey, it was one of those make something happen because we have to. And what it, what it did,
we determined we did a show that Monday got everybody got drew on, got the people at the
auditorium. You know, how do you, how do you move 8,000 people or whatever it was very quickly in
a couple of hours. Right. And they did, but what it did is, is fostered goodwill to everybody.
Cause they sold out next year and they couldn't wait to come back because everybody's like,
they got treated. That's what I'm saying. And let's in your normal life,
you're expecting something as anybody to bring people together and the power,
when you go experience music, what you're really doing is having a communal experience.
And if you weren't, then you wouldn't, you just sit and listen to recorded music.
And the reason you do it is to feel connection with other human beings. And so when you have
that spirit, then that's where you can give grace because we're all fallible. We all fuck up. And
then there's also things that we can't control that happen that are out of that are fuck ups.
And so if you just have a spirit about that of how that happened, let's figure it out.
Right. People appreciate it. Yeah. It's how you, it's how you handle it.
That most people remember. Yeah. I, things happen. I have only a few more things I want to get to,
but I know we're going to cover more, but one thing before we get too far away from the purchasing of
this, of this land and how it came together. One thing I was curious as I came up here for the
Bill Burr and Del Ray show, which comedy here is a whole nother conversation potentially,
but that's my first, my, my time up here. And as I was driving through, I was thinking about the,
think about that in the power of music to bring people together and the power I incorporated or,
you know, you get kind of lost in the weeds on how decisions are made from a governmental standpoint
in Chattanooga. You, right now, especially where we are with codes, this shit would still be waiting
since 2020 on some codes to go through. What kind of red tape, if that, you know, for using a buzz
term or any, anything within governmental agencies or people to be able, I mean, you're coming through
a lot of little areas where people live, you know, and we're, we're just going to bring 6,000 people
to hang out over here. And in some places, the quick thing would be like, oh, well, it's going
to help the hotels. It's going to help the restaurants. It's going to help the, well, there's,
there's none of those things here, not here. Right. Right. Did you have any pushback? Did you
have to go through a city? There's not a city council. I looked that up, but as far as right
here, so we've got, we're in Grundy County. There's the mayor of Grundy County. There's the,
the council Alderman, the, what am I trying to say? The, well, whatever commissioners government
structure of this area. I just don't know. They recognize the, obviously you touched on it,
the huge economic benefits for Grundy County. And it is, there is lots of money that flows
into Grundy County because there are some hotels in Grundy County up on Monteagle mountain. We need
like right around infrastructure. One of the things if I could, you know, with, with the fact
that 73% of all the patrons come from out of the state, if I could, I dream of Jeannie blank, a
lodge here, you know, it would be sold out every weekend. So we don't have infrastructure here.
We don't have water. We don't have sewage. So, you know, Chattanooga, Hamilton County city mouse
flushes his poo poo and it goes right down the toilet and goodbye, you know, and turns on his
or her water and comes right on not in Grundy County. So it's been a real challenge for us to
do all these things without the infrastructure that in a city is taken for granted to the state
of Tennessee's eternal credit. And we've lobbied for this. They have funded through T deck,
County commissioners, county commissioners, and they're the good water and sewage here.
And that is going to allow us from an infrastructure standpoint to be able to build a lodge or do
cabins and be able to have those accommodations where you get those great hotel rates that goes
right back to the county. So the local government officials you're dealing with, they are more than
on board with this idea. You have not had to fight through commissions or meetings or councils.
They're ready to do this. The number one type of economic is still hoping our government.
Well, the number one type of economic, what anybody loves is tourism dollars. Sure. Why?
Because they come and they leave. You see what I'm saying? So yes, it is their interest.
Leave their money here. Everybody's interest to for us. I mean, I can't, I can't, you know,
this is the other thing. You know, the state of Tennessee, we did with using their metrics,
an economic impact study just since 2018. And they have metrics for it because we know how
many people come and how they spend grant, not just for us, but for Pelham to bring water and
sewage here. And that is going to allow us from the million a year. And it's real money that comes
into the coffers of the people that own up on Montaigle, the outdoor store or the, any one of
a ton of places. And there are people that have Airbnb's also, it's been a whole culture of people
because these people have to stay somewhere. I didn't even think about the Airbnb's and then
only one more point on this and I'll be done with it. Is that when I was thinking that is when I was
driving through these neighborhoods and I'm thinking there's a lot, you know, I know mountain folk.
Yeah. They're a different breed for good, bad, worse, and whatever reason. And I, you know,
they don't necessarily care that the Jiffy Lube down the street got extra, you know,
business that week necessarily. They might not want a music venue, what is effectively in their,
you know, backyard and their land. I mean, I, I, I, I, that's just things that were going through my
mind. I'm used to what people are bitching about back home. Yeah. I think it's a sense of pride
for people. It's something like $85 million of an economic benefit. And so it might be true in
Grundy County. They absolutely love the fact that there's, you know, I never will forget this,
the mayor and the, and the council people, when we came and told them that Bluegrass Underground
was moving to Grundy County, my right-hand man, Joe said, when we came out of the meeting, he's,
I tease him that he's from road Hampshire, but he's a mandolin player. I still don't know which
one he's from. One of them up there about New England area. Joe's great, but he, we came out
of that meeting and he said, Todd, I've never heard an unironic praise Jesus in my life before
today. And people were falling down on the ground, praise Jesus, praise him with great praise. They
were so happy that this economic boom, maybe they're bored as hell to their, to their place.
Well, they, they, they really, they really genuinely, uh, uh, appreciated it. And by far
and away, most of the people that we meet, they're proud. They love the fact that Oliver
Anthony came here or a lot of the gospel things that we bring here or a lot of the Christian
music things that we bring here that it's here. Uh, when we were in, when we were in McMinn,
funny story, you know, you can't judge a book by its cover, but, um, this, um, this field that we
had to rent from, um, uh, lease from the Willis family, they had all these cows in them. And I
went to talk to the Bob Willis and he says, well, I'd love to rent it to you, Todd, but you gotta
talk to my son. And I talked to his son, Don and Don says, well, I'd like to do it, but you really
need to talk to, uh, Evan Willis and Corey Willis and course as well. I'd really love to do it,
Todd, but you really need to talk to my brother. It's his cow. So I finally go through all of them
and I go to Evan and I say, well, man, what do you think about this? And he says, dude,
I've been hiding in the woods, watching your shows all, all years. I love what you're doing.
Have you ever thought about this band? Have you ever thought about that band? What about King
Gizzard and the lizard wizard? I said, King Gizzard and the Liz wizard. Who's that? So King
Gizzard. What about them? By the way, they did a four night run at the caverns and the guy that
basically booked it is Evan Willis from the cow farmer from over here. So I'd say the locals are
pretty into it. That sounds like, that's my experience. I'm glad to hear that. Do you have
like a similar situation like the Bonnarooo folks, uh, where they've, uh, set up, um, scholarship
or a lot of the EDM things. So a funny story, you know, you can't judge a book by its cover, but,
and have from its inception and we fund multiple things. We don't beat our chest about it, but
you're asking about it. So I'll tell you, uh, we, we, uh, fund music in schools in Grundy County.
We also have given to the mosaic center, which is a drug and alcohol rehab. So what same with RMS. So
with, um, uh, uh, the blue, um, uh, blue Monarch, which is another, they're all alcohol recovery.
Blue Monarch is for women. RMS is a Christian based thing. Blue Mosaic is the South Cumberland
community fund. Um, we give to that and specifically, um, it's funny you said about
scholarship. We're about to announce and when is this podcast here? Wednesday, hopefully,
hopefully Wednesday. Yeah. Well, I'm going to announce something here, but it hasn't been
announced yet, but we're actually about to announce a scholarship. It's going to be called, uh, the
Caitlin Curry, uh, scholarship that the caverns is announcing for a local student from Grundy County
to, uh, study music business at MTSU. Nice. So yeah, we, um, are, are awesome funds where they
give back to those communities. Yes. So, um, we take a dollar, a Christmas toy drive, and we do
stuff with the fire department and you know, uh, it's, it's super important to, we did a, uh, help
fund a restoration of the Highlander Folk School up on the mountain, which is a whole wonderful
place in the history of the civil rights movement. And so, um, yeah, we give back and we don't usually,
we don't tell nobody about it. We just do it. You know what I mean? But sure, no press releases,
but yeah, we, we, that's part of what we do. Okay. Brian, I see you got another question or two.
Well, yeah, I was just trying to bring some, they all fall in. I wanted to ask you about, um,
going back to talking and the pandemic uncertainties and, and, and try new things because,
uh, you're kind of forced to the ear to the common ground TV show. Yeah. That was a one,
I think a one season. Yeah. About 12 episodes or so. And, uh, this has got a deeper thought of where
you come from and where you came from with the idea, I think, uh, and I might have a follow-up.
We'll see, but ways looking to do things, uh, in the community and to give back in ways that we do
a Christmas toy drive and we do stuff. So I lived in, um, I talk back to serendipity. So in 2014,
um, I was looking for a house. I lived in Nashville in Madison near my kid's school. Um,
and that was in Madison. They went to St. Joseph's Catholic school. And I see this 1920s stone farm
house on 13 acres with a Creek and a barn for less than the price of a tall skinny in Inglewood.
Like nothing. And I said, what in the world? And I called the lady up and I said, can I come out
there right now? And she said, no, I said, when can I come? She said tomorrow. I was on a Thursday.
So I came on the Friday. So I drive down through these old rusty gates down this gravel drive,
where this is the middle of Nashville, 13 acres of woodlands right off Gallatin road. Wow. And
there's, I would have never thought that that exists. There's an old barn and I pull up and
there's this stack stone fire, beautiful farmhouse. And it's got a RV sitting there
with a bluegrass under, I mean, uh, that's more about that. And I said, well, you're trying to
tell me Lord knocked on the door and sure enough, it was John Meyer and Ava Meyer. He was the head
of production at the Raman and at the Opry. And I walked in and there was a mother, Maybel Carter
nitty gritty dirt band. Will the circle be unbroken hatch print there? And at the time,
Gerald and I, Todd squared, we were in pre-production for the nitty gritty dirt
bands 50th year at the Raman PBS special. We did still airs. John prime was on it.
Jerry, Jeff Walker, Vince Gill, Sam Bush, Alison Krauss, Jackson Brown. Everybody was on that
thing. Who's freaking who it was wonderful. It's called. Yeah. So it was wonderful. But I looked
and I saw that and I got chills up my spine. And I said, I think I'm supposed to live here.
And he said, well, make me an offer. I said, I'll give you what you want for it. But minus 3%
because I represent myself. And so I bought it. And, and, but then they told me about the musical
history of that, of that property. And it was originally owned by a guy named Jim Denny.
And he is infamous for being the guy that told a young, pre-famous Elvis when he played the
opera the first time he sound bumpers, don't go quit in your day job. And Elvis was like,
fuck you. And he went and joined the Louisiana. Jim, uh, sold the house for like $15 to a guy
named Mr. Country, uh, Carl Smith and Carl Smith is in the country. He's a call of fame.
Jim Denny is in the country. He's called fame. Well, he sold it to him right before he married
June Carter. And so June Carter and Carl Smith lived there. She wrote ring of fire there. Um,
they got divorced. That's where her and Johnny cash, the house I lived in was literally on
cash lane is where her and Johnny courted. And then after they got married and moved to Henderson
ville, she moved in her mother, mother, Maybel Carter, who died in the back bedroom. So this is
like Nashville's Graceland. Uh, Marty Stewart kind of sounds like, yeah. So I bought it and lived
there and raised my kids there and loved it. And, um, but I knew being somebody that has had these
serendipitous providential experiences happen. There was a greater meaning to it. I didn't know
what it was. Um, and, and one night I was at, um, a sand Dampa theater, um, for why is another,
you had an ice bread, I believe I was at that show. I was there. It was 2017, I believe 16 or 17.
And it was, um, I was dealing with a lot of contempt that I had, um, which is ridiculous.
It's a, it's a stupid emotion to feel, but I, this story you're telling right now, I've heard,
I heard it in print a little bit. I agreed with it. Like I felt that myself. Yeah. For people that
voted different. I had identified with it so much. Everybody does. Everybody does. It's like,
we all understand that feeling. Whatever side you're on. Yeah. Even if you know it's silly,
it's hard to get out of your mind. It was. And so, and I said, you know,
and when you come to the caverns right there on these doors, it says in Sequoia and script,
welcome to the caverns where the great spirit brings all people together through music. So
that's my purpose in life. And I've known that for years. I literally it's inscripted on the door.
We partnered with the Cherokee nation and the Sequoia birthplace to come and honor it and,
and all that. But so it's like, here's a guy who believes in the power of music to, uh,
bring people together. He's living in this Nashville's Graceland. Um, the country is
fractured in a polarizing way. And I had an idea and I didn't do it. And we had a show doing in Cuba
and then I had another, you had a nice red, I believe I was at that show. I was there. It was
2017, I believe 16 or 17. And at the same time that we were opening up the big room came the same
time we were building the amphitheater. So all that's going on. I wasn't done yet. I guess I
looked back on and said, how the hell was I doing that? I was like, yes, because the pandemic had
shut everything down. I had time, but I said, I'm going to do it. And so what it was, the concept is
it's called ear to the common ground and you take a band and eight of their fans, they're all fans
of the band. So they all have common ground and you bring them on cash lane in music city in the
middle of the urban environment and a rural oasis inside of an urban environment. And you sit them
down at a barn table and you have an issue and it was abortion and immigration. It was all,
it was all of them, all of them. And a third of the people are on the left on the issue,
a third are on the right and a third are in the middle. And the only rule is you have to
repay, replace contempt with compassion. So you might say, Barry, I don't really agree with what
you just said there, but. Past those freaking fried chicken.
So that was the spirit. And then at the end, I didn't do it again. The artists would come out
and bring dessert and play a song. And so the pilot we did, oh, I missed that part. I thought
it was just the gathering of like, Hey, we want 15 widespread panic. No, no, no, the band comes.
You actually have Dave schools. Yes, yes, yes. Yes. Every single my buddy, Scott Miller did the,
did the pilot and he came out and played and we had, and so we had all these people were
volunteers. They were all Americans and they came on their own dime from all over the country.
My friend, Becca Finley helped. I wondered if you had to like fund that, but no, I funded it myself.
Well, there was, but well, there was, there was cost to it, but no, no, they all paid on their
own dime to come. They wanted to be a part of this. They wanted to be all the artists volunteered,
all of the, a lot of the production people volunteered, all the people. And it was like,
here we were during COVID when you couldn't even meet with somebody. This was fall of COVID.
And here, when we did the pilot and here we are and we sat down, we broke bread,
we did our COVID testing. We took our masks off. Everybody looked at each other eyeball to eyeball
and it felt so revolutionary at that time just to do that. And I, and, and there was white people,
black people, brown people, Asian people, gay people, and the artists would come out and bring
dessert and play. And there was Christians, Jews, Agnus, it looked like America, but the whole thing
is, is where it's yes, I believe in diversity of race and religion and geography, but the most
important diversity we got is diversity of thought. And like, that's something we've lost so much.
And of course that's only gotten worse, but I did the show, we did the pilot, we did, then we did
12 episodes. We did a whole 12 episodes in 2021. It came out in 2023. My earnest hope was that,
I said, I'll fund this first season, but I need somehow I'm putting this out into the universe.
Somehow it's got to connect with somebody to help get this. Cause the show like this should be on
television. We should have a season two and a season three, but somebody's got to write the check.
And I did it the first year, but I can't continue to fund it. I'm doing some other things, but I'm
proud of it. I thank you for asking. I wanted to look more into it. YouTube had me kind of blocked
out from it quickly. It was, I didn't spend a lot of time on it. I want it, but the concept,
when I read about it, I was like, that's really cool. That's really cool because you're bringing
in people who genuinely people by people that was helpful. Yeah. Right. Like it's so,
in so many times you're like, Hey, let's get a bunch of people together to talk about stuff.
It's not always that helpful. Even if they, if you, if you hope and they think and producer,
whoever thinks it might be, but this really did feel like a very helpful exercise. I would
encourage people to go watch it. They're all on YouTube every episode. They're also on pbs.org
slash here to the common ground. Just Google here to the common ground. Great. You can watch
them all there. 30 minutes or like 25 minutes each, but it will give you the, it will, it will
make you more hopeful about America. And you know, that's something we need because really the,
whether it's on the right or the left, the bullshit is just all the bullshit.
You people care about each other in this country. Yeah. Given, given the right, they do in Chattanooga,
they do in New York city, they do in Peoria, they do in Poughkeepsie, they do in rural, they do in
urban, they do in suburban. Most people are cool. We're being, you know, there's a lot of
bullshit, but I'd like to see things dialed down a bit, but it was a really fun thing. And music has
that power. The thing about music, you know, music and sports brings people together, but in sports,
somebody zero sum game, half the people walk away sad, half, half not. And in music, everybody's
happy. Right. So like elections have gotten that way now too. Zero sum, zero sum, happy,
happy mad or happy sad. Not to get too political, but, but really music, music brings people
together. They do it at festivals. They do it at Bonnarooo. They do it at the caverns, the people
that are watching and listening to this music is a part of their heart. That's why they do it. They
love it. And, you know, we do too. Yeah, for sure. All right. We need to wrap up. You've given us
a ton of time. Speaking of serendipity, I would just want to tell you, you know,
we started and stopped with this. We were going to do this a couple, three weeks ago. And anyway,
things happened. And then what? Two or three days ago, I'm like, guys, why aren't we driving?
You were about to ask, uh, just where can people find your book? Yeah.
And that's the thing about music, you know, music and sports brings people together, but in sports,
somebody zero sum game, half the people walk away. The sad caveman Chronicles, it's available on
Amazon. It's available here at the cave. Um, it's an audio book. I did do the audio read of it as
well. Um, I think people, um, will, uh, it's much deeper than, uh, the story of how the cave came to
be. That is definitely a part of it. But what it really is, um, is about, um, how I as a human being,
um, what's kind of about a lot of things, but really the, uh, it's, it's, it's about, uh,
how I was able to have open my heart and have my heart be opened by some caregiving experiences
that happened in my life that allowed me, you know, I've read somewhere that, um, life is a dance
between, um, uh, um, uh, uh, uh, uh, chance and, and, and love, and that the more you unconditioned
love, the more that the chance is revealed to be something like the serendipity or synchronicities
or things. And that when you, let's talk about the book from, I had one, at least one
pathologist named Joseph Campbell, and he wrote about the hero's journey and the hero's journey
is an archetype that's in all kinds of, I mean, like literally going into a cave, literally going
into a cave and then having some kind of treasure that you come out of a cave with. Right. So that
is, you know, Ali Baba, that's, you know, Luke Skywalker, that's King Arthur, that's Anna and
Elsa, that's Frodo Baggins, that's Bilbo Baggins, that's like, that's Jesus, that's Muhammad,
that's Gabriel, uh, I mean, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, what's this? One of the prophets, I'm forgetting,
but anyway, in Christian religion and all religions and Buddhism and Hinduism and myths,
um, caves are sacred places and there's this whole archetypal thing about caves. And so Joseph
Campbell writes about the hero's journey and there's like 12 steps of the hero's journey. One
of them is called Journey to the Endmost Cave. And so we all live mythic lives and archetypal
lives in many ways. If you want to step back and look at it that way, mine has been literally. So,
so I wrote a book kind of about it and it sort of ties all those kinds of themes in there together,
but, you know, area of, of kind of like, well, has somebody, how, if you're living your dreams,
how did that happen? And what choices did you make? And, you know, where was free will and
fate and those kinds of things. So it gets into some philosophical kind of stuff, but also a hell
of a lot of crazy stories. You said you mentioned journey. That was the word I was going to use. You
sent me a copy and I've, I've, it's your, your journey, how you got to hear and, uh, and it's
very honest and it is painful at times. I was curious about it. Just my one thought on it was
you, you seem to be very well versed in, in lots of things philosophically and all this. So writing
a book doesn't surprise me that that's something you would do, but did you sit down and say,
I'm writing a book now. Here we go. Let's get started. Or were you journaling and it started
to turn into that? Or when did you know you were writing a book? The minute you started,
I had never, never written a book in my life or never written anything. And it was weird.
You're not scared to do things you've never done before. And you know what happened was
coach for me. It's a story of, of kind of like, well, has somebody drive up here today?
You think he's kidding. You gotta get out of your hole, your cave, buddy. I know. Come into another
case. But so I'm going to call just Zesky about you. I'm going to get the dates on. He'll vouch
for it. He'll dig the dirt. He'll tell you the dirt and the good. I promise you. But no. Um,
so, um, uh, what, what actually happened was during the COVIDs, John Prine died.
And I love John Prine of COVID. And when he died, yes, of COVID, something got released inside of
me. And I sat down and I wrote these essays and it weren't about John Prine, but they were.
And it was called trees of forgiveness. And that's not in the book, but I enjoyed writing.
And I was like, Oh my God, that was really, that was awesome. I liked that cathartic.
I got something out. And then I started thinking about my life and I said, okay, every morning,
I'm going to get up and I'm going to write it chronologically about my life. And I'm going to
sit and I'm going to think, what was that? And what happened? And so I wrote it out originally
chronologically. Then I edited it. It's all it's in a non-linear way in the actual book.
But, um, I enjoyed the process immensely. And, um, I was very honest and I wasn't doing it to publish
it. And when I did publish it, I didn't edit it. I wanted to cause there's a lot of tales of telling
myself. Uh, but I did, uh, it was funny. My buddy, my Larry nigger, um, uh, he said, Todd,
I've read your book. I said, Oh, what'd you think? He said, you told me you had a great childhood.
Uh, I said, I did. He said, well, your best friend was run over school bus when you were five in
front of you and killed. And your dad went to jail when you're 10, your parents got divorced
when you're 11, you got evicted from your dad's house, kicked out of your mom's house. Not to
mention the FBI, uh, pirates, uh, scams, uh, mental hospital, uh, you know, drug, all these different
things. And I said, yeah, I didn't action. Right. Yeah. Plenty going on, you know, keep it interesting.
And so, uh, but writing about some of that stuff, uh, but it's all part of the journey, you know,
and yeah, I do have regrets. Uh, people, a lot of people say, Oh, I don't have regrets.
You should have regret. Everything leads to it's like, yeah, regret generalized. You should have
regrets. Yeah. That's why I, that's why I have to live because there are things to learn from.
And so I think I like to think I've learned from, I have a ton of regrets, but writing about things
that I would have regret about was, you know, that was just part of, so it was a little bit,
was just, I was being real with myself. And if you read, people read about it, I think that,
that will come through because it's, you know, authentic to, I think we all share mistakes.
Absolutely. I love the cover too, cause it looks like a choose your own adventure. It's like a
choose your own adventure book. That was then with intent. That was picked up on that. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Exactly. It does look, it looks like a choose your own adventure from 1991 or 1983.
That's right. Or whatever. That was with intent, you know, when I think we all are choosing our
own adventure and it does read like a choose your own adventure book in a lot of ways. And I'm,
I'm happiest with the choices I've made and where it's, where it's led. And I, I could have gone
to like a, you know, turn to page 33 and I'd be in jail right now or dead. Yeah. But that didn't
happen. Knock on wood. This was interesting. But it's all part of the journey, you know, and.
Where does the vision go from here? All right. Very quick, short and to the point. Yeah. Good,
very, very, uh, uh, short and to the point answer. It's all really about experience and accommodation.
So getting this water and sewage is huge for us. I would love to be able to say, okay, what is the
caverns like in a few years? There's the caverns lodge, there's caverns, cabins, by the way, you
can come there any day. You can come there on a Tuesday and have to be a chef and there'll be music
playing in a cave. We've got a caverns tavern. You know, I really want to do, we've got this purified
limestone water. I would love to do our caverns water, caverns beer, caverns, distilled spirits.
Like these are things because we've, because all those things are about the water and we've got this
amazing quality water. We've got the great brand, but people to come and say, Hey,
I went to the caverns and I played frisbee golf and I went and stayed in this beautiful hotel and
I took a hike and I went into this cave on a tour and then I went to this caverns tavern. I had to
be, Oh, and by the way, there was this great show. And so those kind of are, are, are where I'd love
to see it going to put a, I have one more, should have asked earlier. I know you have one more.
Where? Well, toilets. So yes, I would think, you know, for people, especially 73% come from out of
town, they gotta be thinking it's a cave. I don't want to use a porta potty. Right. No, no. There
are nice bathrooms. We have nice bathrooms. We have a septic tank. Uh, we, the flushable situations,
the yurts themselves have flushable toilets, hot showers. I mean, it's not even glamping. It's like
a beautiful hotel room. So you stay in the yurt. Uh, it's, it's a, it's a wonderful experience.
Just down inside the cave for the show, you have great concession options. I noticed for just food
trucks. I mean, there's just lots of options. Um, on my one trip here, I've, I've just, I really
enjoyed it. The final, uh, one I have here for you is back to what you were talking about. Just,
just briefly, not to expand on anymore, that 2017 show where you're, you're dealing with a lot of
contempt and you were struggling and you were at that show and still struggling while you were at
a show. Like you can't cleanse your mind at a panic show. Then, then you're, you're struggling.
Right. Because you, you, you half joked. You're not joking about the toilet paper being in that
spot. Not to do a bunch of political talk either, just like you said, I don't want to do that either.
Your thoughts and your, just your, um, message to people who might be having that exact same feeling
right now as you were in 17, because they're similar, but possibly worse. But, um, if you'd
respond to just, just as long or as little as you'd like to my experience has taught me and shown me
and what I hope for ear to the common ground. And it didn't happen. Maybe it will happen,
but at its very best, I was like, look, this could really take off. You know, this could go here.
This could become like a movement of people where people consciously have their own ear to the
common ground. Do it on their own. They have a dinner party consciously invite people that
don't think like you do. Yes. That don't look like you do a worship like you do or have sex
like you do. That's fine. But, but, but, but they don't think like you do and invite them and have
conversations about these things. Cause what you'll find eyeball to eyeball is much different than
what you'll find on the internet, uh, on social media and, and, and, and, and as, as contemptible
as you might find people's political choices that are opposite of yours from either side of, of the
deal. If you actually just talk to people, you realize, and it will give you faith in America
and in Americans, not that politicians aren't can't, can't be contemptible because they can't.
And not the policies can't be contemptible, but if you're finding contempt for fellow human beings,
well, my advice to you is get out and talk. Yeah, that's, that's just not healthy.
The only thing I would add to that is to be willing to have your mind changed. Don't go
into it thinking I'm going to change that other person's mind. Be willing to think,
I hope that that person says something that changes my mind. Yeah. And that seems to be
a little bit of a social media sickness and illness is that I'm going to change everybody's
minds and no, you're not. Yeah. I mean, you can do the other that you can have your,
you can have your own mind enlightened, but you're not going to, you're not going to force it on
there. There was an artist on the ear to the common ground, uh, Kishana Armstrong, and she had a line
on there that I just loved. And she says, we're never closer to God on the internet, uh, on
something with compassion. And it's like, that's really all you have to do to your point. People
just want to be heard. Yeah. They just want to listen. Yeah. And so listen to them. You don't
have to agree. Yeah. I don't even want you to agree. And I'm trying to say change your mind.
I don't mean like change your whole life or, you know, flip, but just be willing to have something.
Yeah. Yeah. And music does have that power to bring people together. And I'd say maybe the
way to end it is, or we, I'll take questions as much as we want, but on that point, and I was at
a panic show and I was just looking at the panic audience, cause the panic audience is kind of like,
you know, I was thinking of it like, Hey, if everybody here had a T or an H on their forehead
based on this is Hillary and Trump who they voted for half these people wouldn't even fucking talk
to these people much. Let's be dancing because you know, you got your frat boy panic Republican,
and you got your hippie panic lefty. And it was just like, they were a good band that kind of has
a, you know, it's a pretty down the middle of super dippy hippies and super frat guy. Yeah. Yeah.
Who got along really well 20 years ago and 15 years ago about politics. Yeah. Exactly. Then when
we're each other. Yeah. No, that's the thing. And I would like to see, I would like to see everything
dialed down and I w wouldn't it be great to see if politics went back to the way it used to be
where people governed from the center left or the center, right. And it was just like every four
years you get behind somebody, you'll cast your vote and you don't really talk about it hardly
ever again. But, and people are working together and you know, the common ground, the other thing
about the sounds great. The ear to the common ground thing is this is the other thing I really
hope to happen. There was a group and you can Google them. It's the common ground organized,
common ground committee organization, and they go through and list ratings on every politician,
not just a Senate and house, but local politicians. And they give them a rating based on how much they
work with the other side. And so this is the way this country could actually change. If when,
you know, remember Family Feud survey says, Richard Dawson. So what if they did the top
three things that people when they voted the issues they cared about it right now, it might
be inflation and the border or something, right? Whatever. But what if one of the top three was
always the ability to work with the other side? Well, then the people that would get elected,
it would become an electable thing where politicians that wouldn't work with the other side
would not get elected. So if people went and, you know, my earnest thing would be the ear,
the common ground would be something which shine a light on that. And that people would say the
number one thing I value in a politician, whether I'm a Republican, a Democrat is working with the
other side because what makes America truly great is compromise and people with different ideas.
Yeah, for the common good. Yeah. The biggest problem there is, is most people aren't watching
your ear to the common ground. They're watching Jake Paul and Mike Tyson. That's the biggest hurdle.
I told somebody when I did that show, which I did too, by the way, I did too. I stayed up. I wish
I could get that sleep back. I wanted to beat the crap out of that little fricking gin wire.
Or whatever. I want to get up here in Grundy County and I stayed up. Even my kids went to bed
before me last night, which never happened, but I did watch it. But that is so, so, so true.
I'm not trying to make too much greater point, but I love your vision on this. I thought it was,
I really did think it was cool. And I wanted to thank you. I appreciate that.
All right, Todd, man. Thank you so much for allowing us to come up here and do this and
work with the other side would not get elected. So if people went and, and, and, and, you know,
my earnest thing would be that you're the common comedy. You, you, you, you did the Bill Burr and
Del Rey thing. You got Jim Brewer coming. Yeah. Is that. Yes. So here's the thing, man. We've got the
TV show. I used to love growing up watching Rodney Dangerfield's comic show on HBO, the young comics.
That's the first place I saw Sam Kenison and so many people. Music is about discovery. So is
comedy. So I've always wanted there to be an underground comedy series on Netflix or Amazon
or whatever, where you have underground comics. Every comedy in the world. Yeah, I know. That's
the whole thing. So my hope is that Bill or somebody wants to, cause it's, it's going to need
somebody at that level to be attached to it to kind of want to do it and have a problem. Not Jim
Brewer, by the way. Maybe. I don't know. I don't know. Who knows? But, but somebody that, that,
that could get it done. But there, I think it would be really cool to have a show that,
that it wouldn't cannibalize what we're doing with music, but giving us so much of your time.
Underground. That's funny. Right away. It's funny.
There you go. What was that AM sports talk station you took over?
1570 the zone in Louisville, Kentucky. Oh, and we do it. Do you can run. Okay. I wonder if it was
a natural. I'm not familiar with Louisville. I just saw you once that were running an AM sports
talk station. So I had to know which one. Oh yeah. It was 15th. It was in Louisville. And I was
actually in Louisville last week, seeing the balls, played the Cardinals with my good buddy,
Dougan Ryan, and he's still running it up there and doing it still alive and well, huh? Doing,
well without me. I'm gonna give me a call. I could use a radio. All right, man. Todd,
thank you so much again. Thank you. Absolutely. Brian. Yeah. Russ. Great to hang with you guys
and talk on a sunny day. Beautiful day. Let's go in this hole in the ground now. Let's do it.
All right. See you. Thanks. All right. Like I said, that was amazing. I knew it was going to be
interesting. I think we were standing outside after those. I think it's great. At the very
least we want to put more comedy shows just because people are informational, but I didn't
know it would be that much fun. What a cool dude. What a great story. We could go back and do this
for the next, however, yeah. I mean, right. Thanks, Todd, for not only the time and,
and the hospitable nature of what we did, but thanks for just being a cool guest and a good
guest. I mean, sometimes it's as simple as that. Like people who want to do it, you know, sometimes
you got to kind of beat people into a corner. I don't mean it that literal, but like, you know,
okay, sure. You know, I know it's a good idea. Some people are just not that comfortable doing
these kinds of things. And he loved it and enjoyed and leaned into it as you just listened and found
out. And that makes that just that much more fun too. Well, to give you an idea, I sent him a note
probably two hours after to just thanks. And he sent me pictures, which I sent to Russ. And I know
you're going to post them of Bobby Brady with the Tiki towards the three of us. And I said,
I don't know what he's talking about. I pretended to understand that more than I did. Oh my God.
I thought you guys did. You're not old enough. I'm not old enough. I'm not old enough, but I know
I watched a lot of old TV, especially back in the day. Oh yeah. I mean, I've watched Brady Bunch,
but I don't know what he's referring to. I wasn't sure. I knew there was something. You talk about
jumping the shark. That was the second jump in the show. That's totally some shark jumping stuff.
Oh my God. It was so funny. And I was like, dude, man, I'm still laughing about that reference.
And then he sent me the picture. So anyway, that was a lot of fun. All right. We will unpack this
one for a long, long time. I think. And a bunch of festivals starting to really get things started
here as we're hitting that time. And a lot of lineups are out. I've got some thoughts and ideas
on some of these and we'll spend some time on that here soon too, as we get ready for the holidays.
But yeah, we're- Yeah, not today. This is a long show. So we'll do that next week. So all right.
I only had a vague- The stage dives too.
Oh, our EDM guys, right? Yeah. Yeah. Remember we were standing around. We just wrapped up with Todd
and two guys were there for the rave cave show and they walked by and they were like,
aren't you the what podcast? And we're like, yeah, yeah. That is so cool. I'm glad you mentioned that.
Did not expect to run into anybody that- Yeah. Thanks for saying hi guys, by the way. We appreciate
that. I had a very interesting day. Super fast. We did that in the morning. Then I went to the Lodge
Cast Iron Museum and Superstore in South Pittsburgh on the way home, which I've never done before.
Then I went to a comedy club Saturday night here locally. So I forgot all about the EDM guys we
talked to that morning because it was a long, long day, but we need to definitely look up.
Well, they are definitely, yeah, we definitely are going to include them in whatever we do going
forward. And I kind of want to hear about your visit to Lodge. I love it, man. I've been there.
It's awesome. Yeah. Oh, it was, I mean, it's, I don't report people with a cast iron skillet.
But you got yours, right? You got yours. Well, I'll send the picture. Oh, the Bonnarooo one.
The Bonnarooo one. Yeah. I was going to bring that up. Yeah. Bonnarooo. Lodge was a Bonnarooo sponsor
in 2019. They had all huge involvement with the festival. Yeah. Not that I forgot about that,
but this moment I forgot to mention that. Yes, I have mine on the wall. I don't cook on mine.
It's, it's a decorative piece. You put everything on the wall, man. Records, cast iron. Don't you
use anything? I actually use mine. I'm a decor kind of guy, man. I'm a decor kind of guy.
But I think everybody in our camp got one that day. That was awesome. Man, I got that. I got the
poster. I got the stickers. That was awesome. Yeah. So anyway, I stopped in there on the way.
It was a lot of fun. It is a lot of fun. So there you go. And speaking of, I know you guys saw the
meme and not to bring politics into it, but somebody put out there and it went nationwide.
The meme JD Vance puts his cast iron skillet in the dishwasher. Oh yeah. That's funny.
That one's been recycled. But you got yours, right? You got yours. Well,
uncertain name here. It's still funny. Out of touch of reality guy puts his cast iron in a,
okay. All right. All right. There you go. Great show. Jake Paul puts his cast iron skillet in
the dishwasher. Don't put your cast iron in the dishwasher if you don't know. Don't do that.
Great show. And thank you guys. I mean, it was so great when, you know, it was one of those midweek
things. I'm like, dude, if we're going to interview this guy, why are we going up there? And you both
went, yeah, let's go. So love it. Yeah. We need to do more field trips. That was a lot of fun.
Yeah. And you know, not to spend any amount of time on this, this technology stuff is great.
I want to be in person with people every time, all the time. So different, so different. So if
you guys got any suggestions out there, send them our way. We'll take a look at it. Please. Yeah.
Drop a comment. Just don't send us to, you know, Oklahoma or something like that. Unless you're
going to pay for it. I bet they eat good out there. All right to you guys thanks very much.
Subscribe. Hit all those buttons. Do everything. All right love you. Bye.
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