The Roo Tang Clan

Oh it's a season of leaks, innuendo, speculation and it's coming from all sides.

Welcome to the what podcast. I'm Brad Steiner.

That's Barry Courter, a podcast for Bonnarooians by Bonnarooians about bongaroo.

Barry Courter, did you get awash with excitement with the lineup announcement?

Yes, every time.

Yeah, every time it happens. I'm so excited.

Here's how you know that, so if you didn't know, something got leaked onto InfoRoo that then made its way to Reddit

and then made its way around the social media is that Bonnaroo's leaked lineup came out

and you know, like clockwork, just so happened to come out somewhere around Black Friday.

Yeah, isn't that amazing?

Right about when tickets go on sale. How weird is that?

I know and I think everybody from John Lennon to Jimi Hendrix was on the list, right?

Boy, that sounds great. Bonnaroo's back.

If you're going to sell tickets, if you're going to put out a list.

Now you got to start thinking at some point because now there's some people who just like doing fake lineups, right?

Sure.

People just like and they enjoy it and here's how I've always, and I don't know if it's real or fake,

everybody on the sites are convinced that it's fake, but here's how I know it's fake.

Everyone liked it. That can't be a real lineup if everyone likes it.

That's true. You pay attention to the lineup thing a lot more than I do.

Have you got a sense of how often or how close these fake ones are to reality when it does come out?

So there's a thread on Reddit right now about last year's lineup as opposed to the leak that came out last year,

but again, these leaks are just, because they're figments of imaginations based on some intelligent guessing,

they're pretty good. They're pretty good.

The one consistent one that I found, so to me I always worry about,

the same way I bet football games and basketball games and I try to go against conventional wisdom,

I try to bet almost with Vegas because they know a lot more than we do.

I almost feel like sometimes when I see leak after leak after leak and they all include the same artist,

I can pretty much write them off. I almost wonder if that's the tell.

Everybody thinks the Food Fighters are going to beat them up.

They do, some of them have a lot more detail sometimes, like so and so is touring this summer or not touring,

or their dates are open, or they blocked off.

One of those artists happens to be the Rolling Stones, which is again,

I think that if we were being honest and you being a lot closer to Ashley than I,

if we were all honest with each other, that's probably their white whale.

Absolutely.

That's the one they've wanted the most and they've always wanted the most.

They could probably secretly tell you they wanted it more than Paul McCartney.

Yeah, I would think so. Or close.

So let me ask you this.

You two doing its only ever US festival at Bonnarooo is a big deal.

Here's the only thing that makes me scratch my head about the Rolling Stones.

We're talking leak and new windows suspicion ideas here.

If I have to find one reason why I would think that the Stones are a major possibility,

how is it they have no Atlanta or Nashville dates on their US tour?

How was the last time they did a US tour? I don't remember.

But yet they have a date in Jacksonville, Florida.

Yeah.

What?

Yeah.

Who's going to Jacksonville, Florida to see the Stones?

Everybody from Atlanta and the surrounding 250 miles.

That is a major tell.

You know what we need to do?

We need to get somebody on here who's an expert in this sort of thing.

You think so? Who would that be?

I don't know. I'm sure AC or...

I thought that was supposed to be us.

Wait a second.

I'm sure there is. Let's think about it.

I bet there is somebody who has done a lot of big time booking and can explain to us more than...

Because I think a lot of us just think it's a simple matter of money.

It's not always money.

It's about sometimes whether they've played in that area before, routing,

whether the artist wants to do it or doesn't want to do it.

You know what we forget about?

Some artists just don't like Bonnarooo.

Just don't like Bonnarooo. They don't do Heat.

They don't want to be outside. They don't want to be Heat.

Yeah, exactly.

I heard a great story about a band that I will not mention who has been to Bonnarooo a lot.

And I was told by their manager straight up, they hate doing Bonnarooo.

And I said, why? They literally... They've been there five times.

He goes, they just hate playing outdoors.

They loathe playing outdoors and they just don't think their show works in the Heat.

It's like, well, boy, you could have fooled me because the four times I've seen them have been unbelievable.

The other band that I don't think likes Bonnarooo is Deathcap for Cutie.

Why in the world Deathcap for Cutie has put out three albums since the last time they've been to Bonnarooo?

They don't show up. They don't show up.

So whenever you're trying to see a fake lineup or a lineup at all that's leaked that has Deathcap for Cutie's name in it, I just throw it away.

That's what I mean. It'd be fun to get somebody who can give us some of those backstories of...

You know, here in Chattanooga, it has been a long-held truth,

and it's come to fruition because it hasn't happened.

Jimmy Buffett swore off ever coming back here after playing at our old baseball stadium.

Not exactly sure why, but he hadn't come back.

Those kinds of things. I think it'd be fun to have somebody kind of dive a little deeper into how bands pick where they go and don't go.

And it has a lot to do with what the festival's point of view is.

You know, they universally, from this crowd, from the Bonnarooo crowd, the line...

It's a great study in where Bonnarooo's mentality is, at least the Bonnarooo people's mentality.

You've got, over the last two weeks, since we've lasted an episode, you've got the Shaky Knees lineup come out,

and then you've got the Hangout Festival lineup come out.

One universally loved, one universally loathed.

Now, again, Shaky Knees has a very specific perspective they're going after because it's a crowded marketplace,

and there's two festivals in Atlanta, there's a festival in Manchester.

They have a specific thing they're going for, and that is an underground indie alternative lane.

Hangout Festival is all top 40.

I know that you may not like the Hangout Festival lineup, but I garner a guess that that thing's going to sell out in about a day and a half.

Yeah, you know, when you were mentioning Ashley earlier and the Rolling Stones, you know, they, with their partnership with C3,

the lineup has changed, but it's changed every year.

What I was going to say is, when McCartney was there, that was something that Ashley wanted.

He said it, you know, he put it out there.

He does, he curates basically the Big Ears Festival in Knoxville, which is very, completely different.

It's not for everybody, but it's his. That is his baby.

It's a very electronic thing.

So there's a whole different philosophy on how these things are booked, you know.

There's the business end of it. You've got to book bands that are going to sell tickets.

So I'm very curious to see where it goes.

The Rolling Stones obviously is a home run type of thing that gets the big numbers back.

Yeah, it does get a, that gets a very big number.

And we've talked about before, do they want the big numbers back? We don't know.

You don't know. Let's go through some of these artists on the Hangout lineup.

And again, contrary to what I like and enjoy on a daily basis, I work at a top 40 radio station.

Yeah, you do traffic and sports.

Funny guy. I do a comedy show.

We don't necessarily focus on the pop culture stuff.

We don't necessarily talk about the music. We don't necessarily care about the music.

We have our own little thing that somehow works.

But everybody in my building saw the Hangout lineup, and everybody in my industry saw the Hangout lineup.

On the top 40 side, universally lost their minds.

Because it is for that specific crowd, a monster.

It's a monster. Listen to these. I mean, this is just hit after hit after hit.

Every single person you hear on contemporary radio right now.

Travis Scott, Khalid, Cardi B, Bebe Rexha, Bozzy, Bryce Vine.

By the way, I was the very first person in the entire country to play Bryce Vine.

Even played our little festival here in town. Lovely, the band.

I mean, I know it's not for most people, and especially most people listening to this,

but back to the point of like, there's a specific angle they're going for.

Hangout is there for college kids. It is a college kid festival.

But by the way, and I will go to my grave saying this, it's one of the best organized festivals I've ever been to.

Yeah, you've said that many times.

You may not like what's on the stage, but boy, there's not a bad place to see a show.

Everything feels really natural and easily accessible.

There's not a better artist section in the entire country than how they treat you at a Hangout festival.

Now we've come to the reality. If Brad is comfortable.

If Brad's doing good for Brad, this place is great.

This is the best. Yeah, if you get the VIP, it's the best festival ever.

If you don't get it, it's the worst.

So then you go to the shaky knees lineup for this year.

It's on a completely different plane.

Tame Impala, Beck, KG Elephant, Incubus, Gary Clark Jr., Father John Misty, VOCs, Black Lips, Japanese Breakfast, on and on and on.

That sounds like every undercard we've ever wanted.

I was just going to say, I like that a lot.

I know. Whoever's listening to this, whoever listens to this does not hate that.

And they would think about traveling down to Atlanta for a night.

That's a great point.

So because we are in this weird position in the calendar where by the time you listen to this, we might have a lineup, by the way.

They're getting earlier and earlier.

We think it's going to be mid-January, first of January.

It damn well could be mid-December.

You've got Coachella happening.

Literally by the time we finish this today, Coachella's lineup might be out because they always seem to run parallel with Hangout.

You've got Shakey Knees already out.

Bonnarooo's somewhere in there.

And in the next three to four weeks, we could be talking about a Bonnarooo lineup.

Well, the reality is they are competing for ticket buyers with those other festivals.

Most people, I mean, can do one.

I can't imagine there are many that do two.

And I would go ahead and say this to the Bonnarooo people.

Hello, guys from AC Entertainment.

Thank you for listening to the podcast.

Thank you for allowing us to talk about your wonderful product.

We would love to announce the lineup.

Absolutely.

What a better venue than the What Podcast.

What a great idea, huh?

What a great way to control your message than by putting it right here on the What Podcast.

We'll put it out whenever you want, however you want.

However you want, whenever.

It's the beauty of a podcast.

I can just hit post.

So we're in this doldrum time of sitting here and waiting and anticipating.

So we thought that while we bide the time, we talk to some people who we've been admiring from afar.

So I've been following these Twitter accounts and the InfoRoo's and the Reddits just to keep the spirit alive in myself, in my own heart.

So to pass the time, I turned to some pretty trusted social media accounts just to get a little Bonnarooo fix here and there.

And I thought that would be a great idea if we started talking to some of those guys

and bide the time and to see what they're thinking about for the festival, think about the festivals in years past.

So who shall we talk to today their Barry Courter?

Let's talk to the guys over at RooTang.

The RooTang Clan?

The RooTang Clan.

That's a really good Twitter account, at RooTang Clan.

And they, you know, we talk about it a little bit, but I think it's fascinating that it is early December and we're still talking Bonnarooo.

We're talking, I say still, because the other way would be we're jumping, we're getting ahead because the lineup,

but we've not stopped talking about it.

Right.

Basically, and neither of these people, which is what we've discovered on all these Twitter accounts,

it's become a year-round thing with people doing countdown to how many days are left and guessing who the bands are going to be.

But more than that, and we really talk about it with these guys, with Richard and Dan from RooTang,

they mention a lot of shows, but they mention the camp experience quite a bit too.

And I think you and I both came to that realization last year when we started doing this, that it's about a lot more than the lineup.

They opened my eyes to a couple of things in this conversation that I guess I didn't put blinders on necessarily,

but boy, I wasn't aware of how great the group experience is, the group camping experience.

This is a testament.

Boy, oh boy, they have got something special in that group camping that I was not, not necessarily aware of.

And if I was going to Bonnaroo as a regular patron, right, and not doing media stuff, hello, group camping.

Absolutely.

There are all my people right there.

And I mean, we've talked about it, and that's the other thing.

We've done it now 14 years, so it's become a thing.

These guys have only been going four or five years, and it's already deeply ingrained into their lives.

They went all in fast.

And they made a great point, which you'll hear about, like if you're an individual or you're from Canada or anywhere in the world

and don't want to have to lug all the stuff that we lug, group camping is the way.

It is the way. Here we go.

Let's get into it.

Dan Richard from Ru-Tang Clan on the What Podcast.

Doing good. How you been?

I'm great.

Apparently we've called the Ru-Tang headquarters.

What kind of major operation you guys running over there with your conference calls, your offices?

What in the hell is going on?

I don't know, right? Yeah, no, we're just a group that was pretty much in the brainchild of Richard Stafford.

And pretty much we've grown from a small group of around 55, I want to say, in 2016 to a group of over 250 campers.

Get out of here.

So.

200 of you last year?

Well, technically, no, we were actually 200 and I think officially registered we had 254.

So we were just a couple shy of Reddit.

But we had some ringers that were doing RV camping, some first time rulers.

So we had an extra, I think, four or six of those.

I don't do this very often with other men, but I'm having group envy.

I'm having a little bit of group envy.

That's Brad Richard. This is Barry.

I was just thinking, I think our big year was around 20 and we had to make some serious cuts because we didn't like everybody.

We definitely we've never liked anybody, but we definitely we did switch it up a little bit.

Originally, you guys have time for a little Genesis story?

Absolutely.

We get all the time in the world.

All right, cool. Well, so my first Roo was back in 2014, completely kind of out of the blue.

I had heard of Bonnarooo and you know, whenever you hear other people talking, oh, it's different than other music festivals.

I'm like, yeah, sure. You know, whatever. I get it.

You had a good time. Cool.

The lineup came out just on a whim on Facebook.

I saw it and I think I just got a new credit card or something.

And I was going through some kind of internal, you know what?

I'm missing out on things. You know, I was approaching.

I don't know how old I should say I am, but I was approaching 40.

And, you know, these things, I'm just going to buy some tickets. Let's go.

I bought a couple of tickets and then long story short, my two brothers, Mitchell and Drew ended up coming with me.

We had this big grandiose dream of having an awesome RV and all this stuff.

And one by one, our friends started flaking out, ended up just being the three of us.

And we went with the RV anyway. Unfortunately, we didn't do it right.

We rented one in Dallas. I'm from Oklahoma, my brothers lived there.

We rented one from Dallas, the kind that you tow.

And we towed, you know, 13, 14 hours, whatever it was.

We wasted so much gas. We were getting about six to eight miles to the gallon.

We finally get to Bonnarooo and they pull us in and my brothers, he had a trailblazer at the time.

It starts smoking like really, really bad as we're going through security.

Well, just like it should when it goes to Bonnarooo, by the way, as it should.

That old cliche.

Different kind of smoking.

That old chestnut.

You know, this was our first time.

We had no idea that you might hit several hours of traffic once you get there.

We're, you know, we're hangry and tired and driving all night.

We get there and start smoking.

They pull us into our spot eventually and they're like, all right, you're here.

All you got to do is straighten her up.

As we tried to put it in reverse or straighten it up, the car just completely dies.

It turns out we ripped a serpentine belt.

And so we were stuck.

And so our first second experience at Bonnarooo was we are stuck with this RV that just cost us a fortune to get here.

How are we going to get out?

The magic of Bonnarooo helps. A couple of days later, we basically decided we're going to just not let this ruin our trip.

Let's worry about this some Saturday.

I'm sure somebody can tow us out of here or something.

We'll fix it up.

We meet this guy named Troy Eugene at one of the shows.

I can't remember which one it was.

My brother said something funny.

He turned around and, you know, laughed.

And then we just started talking to this guy.

We go from like photo show and then we end up at that Skrillex Super Jam, which to this day is maybe one of the best shows I've seen.

You know, I wasn't even a Skrillex fan.

You know, that's another story. But and then we're talking to him.

Hey, where are you from, by the way?

He's like, I'm from here.

I'm right down the street.

You don't know a mechanic, do you?

He's like, yeah, me.

He comes the next day while we were at Arctic Monkeys.

He comes and fixes our car.

Stop it.

And we've met up with him every year.

He just had some extra circuit belts in his bag.

He had a serpentine.

How does that happen?

He was local.

So he went to the store for us.

Like he did all this stuff for us.

And he was like, I'm the only one that you've ever met.

And I was in that before and I was just taken aback by that.

You know, man, this is and just, you know, I had we had experience, experience,

experience. Everybody was so great.

You know, at the time, 2014, a lot of political turmoil in the world.

And just to be somewhere where like 80,000 people like got along for that many,

that much time and, you know, just so thoughtful.

It's just life changing.

Anyway, my brother is wearing a Wu Tang tank top one day.

Just everybody's yelling Wu Tang at him.

And I think anybody out there that's ever, you know,

tagged picture prior to 2014 a bar and call their crew the Wu Tang clan.

We didn't mean to copy.

I had never thought of it before.

I didn't know that people had used that before.

But we ran with it.

And the next year, our group moved to nine.

It was my girlfriend at the time is now my wife and eight other guys.

And we just threw together these like last minute Wu Tang logos on some tank tops.

And to second, we walked out with those things.

And we had a moment when we went through security and security stops the gate

to take pictures with us in our Wu Tang shirts.

And instead of everybody getting pissed off that they're, you know, waiting to get in,

everybody starts chanting Wu Tang clan ain't nothing to f with, you know,

over and over again.

We're like, this is awesome.

So we started to social media.

I started social media accounts for, you know, for Wu Tang clan.

The next year, we were like, you know, we've got to get 24 people.

We got to make this a group camp.

So as doing that, we were on the cusp.

We had 26 people that said they were going to do it.

But you know, like people always drop out.

Well, it turns out that there was another group that was going to fall short.

They had, I can't remember how many, 11 or 12, I think.

Dan, correct me if I'm wrong.

They were also calling themselves Wu Tang clan.

And we're like, wait, there can't be two Wu Tang clans.

Let's combine.

And then that fixes all the problems, you know.

And so we combined with them.

And then another group from New Jersey, Pennsylvania, they, I don't know,

first 2015, I don't know, joined us.

And then, you know, first year, that was the first official Wu Tang clan.

What year was that? 2015, 2016.

We were 54.

And then from there, now we've got 54 people wearing a much cooler looking Wu Tang clan shirt.

We designed a much better logo.

And we had all of us wearing these bright yellow tank tops on Saturday,

passing out stickers, passing out, you know, temporary tattoos.

And people started seeing that.

And then from that 54, we grew over 200.

And honestly, all we were going to do that year is they started the pit contest.

You know, the first group to 75 went to pit access.

We're like, man, we can get to 75.

Everybody bring a friend.

Once we hit that and we won that, because Reddit had already surpassed it and won the big prize.

Once we hit that, it was just like, it was like a wildfire.

All of a sudden, because I get all these, what is it, Fibo?

I get all these emails every time somebody would register.

And we went from like 78 to like 130 in three days.

And then up, and then also up 200.

It was wild.

It was really, really big.

And so, you know, we didn't know what we were doing.

We had one year of group camping under our belt.

Now we've got 200-plus people.

It still worked out great.

I mean, we had some parking issues and some things to learn.

And, you know, we had some people that weren't really like group.

You know, they were just kind of using it for a spot to camp in a cool place and get a little bit of extra room.

So we kind of made some rules where it's, you know, hey, you know,

we just want people that want to be in our group rather than just our group,

because there's so many groups that need members, you know.

So anyway, that's kind of how it worked.

And then last year it was just, you know, returning members and friends.

And we don't say no, you know, there's people that reached out to us.

It was funny.

It was almost like job interviews.

People would email myself and Dan.

And it'd be like, hey, you know, it's me and two girls of this age.

We, you know, just the kind of music we listen to at late night.

We do this, you know, hopefully we're a fit.

Oh, yeah, you're fit. Come on.

Maybe you're fit.

Who knows what we're going to be this year.

What are your qualifications for this said Ru-Tang Clan, ma'am?

We'll get back to you.

Yeah.

Don't call us.

I mean, there was a couple of people that their resumes weren't too great.

Yeah, I'm kidding.

Yeah, but their nudes are terrific.

So they go in.

Yeah.

This is this is phenomenal to me because this is there's so many layers here that I want to dissect because this is everything that Bonnaroo is supposed to be about.

Right. Everything that we preach about.

It's a reason why we started this podcast is stories like this groups like you guys and because it is the mirror image of how we started.

It's exactly how me and Barry became friends.

It's exactly how our friend group has grown to the group that we camp with.

It's that magic of the campsite that turns you into a Bonnaroo lifer. And the fact that your campsite and your group, what has turned into a three hundred sixty five day Twitter account, it's because of some guy that helped you in Manchester that was bleeding the Bonnaroo feeling and bleeding the Bonnaroo mantra helped you.

That made you believe in Bonnaroo when you were skeptical to begin with.

Could have been a disaster.

And then it grew into a giant thing that is gone on now. This will be the fourth year, fifth year.

That's phenomenal, Richard. That's phenomenal.

Right. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, that's exactly what it was. I mean, the lineup and the people definitely helped.

But yeah, and it's it's fun. I mean, you know, it's really hard to describe to people, too.

You know, if you're not if you're outside of the group, it's funny.

I'm here. I'm a head of PR for a distributor here, a film distributor, Blue Fox Entertainment here in Los Angeles. I was just trying to explain to people why I need this meeting early.

It's really hard to do.

I'm sorry. Yeah. Sorry.

Miss Streep, you can hold on for a second. I'm going to talk to this Bonnaroo podcast.

Yeah, I'll do this podcast. These guys in Chattanooga I've never met. Yeah.

Yeah. That's so you know, and we started something that I don't know that will ever stop, you know, even when I'm holding on, I just I think the I think the train has left the station.

So everything Brad said is what I was thinking.

But when we started this in February, we thought we'll be lucky to get what enough shows leading up to the event.

And then we've thought for sure come Sunday when the event's over, the podcast is done.

I don't think we understood the 365 day thing with so many people that has been I think I look Brad we had another hundred or so downloads like yesterday.

Oh, stop it. You love it. He doesn't look. I look at the numbers. He loves looking. I don't care.

It fascinates me that people are still listening to the what podcast, you know, what is this five months later?

And you're still probably seeing more people follow you on Twitter, more people sign up for a group camping, you know, and the other thing too that's interesting about this

in 14 years of Bonnarooo. Now, I know that I probably live a very sheltered Bonnarooo life.

You're the first set of people that I've talked to that's done group camping.

And I didn't know I'm learning things as you say it.

I didn't know that you had to have a certain amount of people to even make the group camping happen.

And I wonder, Dan, you did GA. Richard, had you ever done GA before? I'm assuming no.

I did. Yeah. So the first year we did we had the RB fiasco and then the second year when there's nine of us, we did GA.

OK. So when you did. We didn't do the normal probably GA because we brought in we had nine people we had and we made one big kind of tent.

But yes, we were definitely GA and then I it was fine. It was a blast. But after doing group camping, I could not imagine doing it any other way.

Is that right? Even if somebody gave me free VIP tickets because it's come up like people were, you know, my brother was kind of considering it last year.

And, you know, do you want to do VIP, you know, before you know, because I'm going to have a family soon and who knows how much longer I'll be going before a break.

And I just don't want I just want to do group camping. Yeah.

Describe group camping for us, because I'm not familiar with it either.

How is it different than say VIP or GA? Sure. Well, like rule wise, just on the rules, you know, if you have 24 people, you need 24 people.

Essentially, it was created for people reconnecting, you know, that live on different sides of the country. Let's say that year that nine of us went, we had to meet at Walmart and meet outside the gate.

Right. Right. To camp next to each other. But follow each other, tale to tale.

Exactly. And, you know, you're panicking that you're going to get separated somewhere.

But this way, as long as you register by a certain date, you know, that gets the the monitoring staff at least a month to kind of space everything out.

But you get a camp, it'll be reserved for you based on how many people you have registered and you can show up whenever.

And it's you know, so if we've got our friends in Florida, they just show up. Hey, we're in group camping. You have your little car tag. I'm with routine. They put you right where you need to be.

So that's the big, you know, that's I think the genesis of how it started and the reasoning for it. It was great.

And I've noticed, you know, since we've started doing it, it has absolutely blown up. I mean, all of a sudden last year, we've got multiple groups.

You know, at least three groups of over a hundred. And it's just getting bigger and bigger and bigger.

And what it is a little differently other than just for the convenience. People over there are I don't know how to really put it.

I mean, they're just about it. You know, they are all about honor. They've been going forever.

People decorate camps. You know, people have themes each year. You know, SuperCurve will do a theme. We'll do a theme.

This this one familiar. Sorry to interrupt, but this one familiar with.

And frankly, it's making me feel very under like we have really you're going to have to pick it up.

It's all on me, though, Barry. I've got a lot on my shoulders here in this campsite.

And our signs. I feel like I've really dropped the ball here.

I'm sorry, Richard. You guys, you know, no, because it's what's funny.

What really whenever we started getting the brain turning like, hey, let's do group camping.

One of the things that made me want to do it was we walked by a camp that had a white picket fence and yard flamingos.

I don't know if that was you guys or not, but we thought it was such a cool idea to have like a theme.

And yes, so everybody in group camping does that now.

It's almost like a community within a community within a community because, you know, all the different groups are starting to merge and do things together.

Last year, I don't know if anybody was at the Jungle Show last year.

What are you crazy? It's my favorite live band on the planet. Yeah, it's great.

Exactly. As you should be. And I can't wait. I'm seeing him here today in March. I can't wait.

If you guys saw the pizza thing last year, did anybody just happen to see the big pizza event?

So, yeah, so that's an example. I mean, it wasn't all group camps.

You're wrong over at Rue Shoot. I suppose the ringleader of that whole thing contacted us and some other Bonnarooo influencers to do this hilarious, you know, eight gigantic pizza slices.

Pool floaties that are at least seven feet tall. Dan, how big was it? Because you were carrying it around. Yeah, I was carrying it.

Somehow we got my big 25 foot flagpole in past security.

Pretty much Celia who runs Rue Fitness got this smart idea to hook it up to my flagpole because it had clip holes on it so you could clip it to it.

That thing was very unwieldy. When we stayed through jungle and through Moon Taxi and when Moon Taxi threw out those big beach balls, we saw them coming towards us and we were starting to freak out thinking they were just going to knock it all over.

Yeah, just playing giant softball at that point.

Yeah, if anybody didn't see the pizza thing. So eight different gigantic pizza slices were positioned at different spots during the jungle show.

All of a sudden somebody waves a pizza party flag and then all the different pizza slices start coming together from different spots.

So anybody in the back of the crowd sees these gigantic pizza slices coming together and just don't know what to do. There's something happening here, right?

And then jungle even made a mention of it. Like once they're sawing it, I'd like to point everybody's attention. I think there's a gigantic pizza in the back.

And that's when we knew we made it. We were like, we have made it. And then one of the vendors, oh my gosh, I can't remember. Who was the vendor?

Spicy Pie? Was it Spicy Pie?

No, it wasn't Spicy Pie. It was the other really good pizza.

Oh, okay.

They sponsored, I don't know, 12, 15 pizzas. And so we had a pizza party in the middle of the crowd.

There you go.

It was kind of like a pizza conga line.

Oh yeah, we're looking at pictures.

I'm going to bury the pictures of it right now, the giant pizza coming together at jungle.

It's pretty...

That's the microcosm of it.

See, I love this idea though that your group just keeps getting bigger and you have this almost like an entry process.

Like how often are you, let me put it this way, when you're sitting at camp, right, and you see all of these people around you, how engaged with each and every one of them are you?

Are you trying to make time for all of them? Are you spending a lot of time at camp? Is camp just absolutely madness at all times?

It's, I tell you what, Rue Tang is a combination, a lot of smaller groups for the most part. That's kind of the way I put it together.

So, you know, that first, I explained how we first started in 54, you know, we're three groups.

So most of the people that are in Rue Tang are also from groups, you know, it's like four of their friends also, or five of their friends, or some are even big.

I think we've got some groups like 15, 20. So they camp next to each other. We make sure to plan it out enough ahead of time to where we can make sure everybody gets to camp next to their friends.

And then, so yeah, so you've got a mix of some people that kind of hang to themselves.

Most of the time, you know, people are walking around, you're playing flat bag or, you know, last year we had a Hawaiian theme.

So we're like, everybody's getting laid at camp, we're passing out lays. You're definitely all talking.

We have some kind of group events, you know, where, hey, at this time, everybody come in together if you feel like it.

So it's pretty fun to walk in with like a group of 60. I tell you what the best time, one of the best experiences I had,

and the reason I knew I was going to be doing group camping forever was during the rain delay of, what was it, 2016?

Yeah, yeah. So 2016 rain delay. We all like, that's when the original kind of OG Rue Tang clan all really got solidified because everybody was back at camp, you know, like 930 or whatever.

Fighting this storm. And we all walked back in together. And it was so, so, so incredible to see 50 something people all wearing the same thing.

Those kind of moments.

I don't know, it's a mix of both, you know, at camp, to answer your question. It's not madness fighting me.

We've got, you know, areas for everybody's kind of getting along and hanging out. We try to talk to everybody. Names are tough.

Yeah, I don't want to get too deep into the sausage making, but I am curious about your two, the dynamic of you two, because Richard, you're in California. Dan, where are you?

I'm in Kansas City.

Did y'all, you didn't know each other before or you did?

No, we met in 2016.

Yeah, the way I got involved, I was part of the other group that merged with Richard's group. At the time I was going solo and then on Twitter I met up with the other group leader, Christian, at the time.

And it was just completely random. I was going solo and I said, hey, what the heck, I'll take potluck and go with it.

That's awesome.

And now, but see, you're involved with the Twitter. You're involved with the Twitter account, right, Dan? I mean, you're the one that responded when I reached out.

Yeah, I do that. And also I do the Instagram account too.

He is the key captain. He is Captain Sweeney. He's got his captain hat. I forget how we named him the captain, but yeah, so he's the captain of the routine clan. And I'm just merely the group leader, but captain makes it all go.

And just real quick, just for anybody that's listening out thinking about doing group camping, even though I said, you know, our group is a mix of groups, there's also people that go solo.

And it's actually a good point. If you are going solo, group is super beneficial if you're having to fly in or you don't have anybody to drive with because, you know, it's very encouraged to carpool.

You know, we had some some some of our new friends from Canada that are in, you know, it was really hard for them to pack a tent and stuff.

So they would either order or mail it to somebody else in the group.

And I bet, and I bet like, and I bet like if you guys, if you've been doing this for so long, if somebody needs a place, I bet you guys got extra gear just sitting around. Right. Oh, yeah. That's awesome, man.

And you said something too that was interesting. The other thing that was interesting too, you said that there's a leader, then there's a captain. Barry, we don't have this sort of like hierarchy of camp nut butter.

I think it'd be a fight. We even got coca and that kind of help out with doing t shirt orders or making sure that everyone's got everyone signed up for their carpools and everything.

You know what I would, you know, we have people that want to sign it.

We have a guy probably, I would say our our patriarch who shows up late on Friday. Yeah. Everybody sets everything up for him.

He sits there and watches. He touches nothing. We go pick him up. We take him out and he does nothing. And then and then he steals all of your stuff, if you know what I mean.

He eats your food. And then he eats all your food, hits on your wife and then basically says at the end of it, well, you guys did nothing this year, did you?

I don't know if I like this group. I don't know if I like this group. Oh, by the way, I need a ride.

Last year was the first year during this podcast leading up to Bonnaroo. Last year was the first year talking to more people and more people like you guys got me into wanting to go out to guest or to G.A.

For the first time, I've been to G.A. once and that was 14 years ago. And I swore I would never go back because I was like, there's not what you think, Richard.

It's not it's not for me. It's a very scary world out there for me. I got no hair product out there. It's very concerning.

All right. So like but more the more I was talking to guys like you guys like going out to G.A.

It was phenomenal. I loved everything about it. In fact, two nights I could have stayed out there.

Now then now I want to go to group camping. Now I want to see what group campings like.

I want us to come crash Rutan Clan this year. Can we come? Can we come hang out? Absolutely.

You know, everybody is welcome at Rutan campus. We don't we haven't decided our plans this last year. We had the Rutan Clan Bonoluao Wednesday night.

If you can guess, we did a Hawaiian theme last year. Yeah, I guess.

Well, here's it was a really fun kind of Wednesday party. So, yeah, we'll be doing something like that again.

And we might be teaming up with some of the other groups to be determined. See, that's awesome.

But yeah, come by any time. I will be there. I'm enormously excited.

Like you guys put out like a schedule of like who's going where and who you can talk to. That would be kind of fun.

I love talking about campsite stuff because it inspires me to do the same sort of stuff.

I now want to do like a checklist of like who's going where and who's going when so we can all go together.

I like it. I like it. Well, a lot of it, you know, last year, like I said, you know, it's been a learning experience,

but we did implement some stuff last year that is we didn't plan so much.

There's so much. You know, we wanted to plan everything all at once. But one of the things that we implemented,

we're going to do a better job of this year is all it takes is a dry erase board, a couple of dry erase boards at kind of a communal site.

It's just like, hey, we had a lot of the gang last year was really hyped for base nectar.

So it's like, hey, we're leaving at this time to go see base nectar or we're going to be at the front right stage or whatever, those kind of things.

You don't want to plan too much because once you get there, everybody that's been borrowing those, I mean, you know, a schedule is a guideline.

If anything, it's more about just setting up options, you know, because we don't not everything is all about routine while you're there.

You know, it's a group camping your group.

Basically, we want people to participate as much or as little as they'd like.

So we just, you know, put a bunch of things in place like last year when we did, we bought 800 beach balls that we put the routine logo on.

And so we gave everybody a bunch of beach balls.

We thought it'd be fun to kind of have some organized like, hey, at this show, everybody's going to wait till the beginning of the third song.

We're going to launch our beach balls.

Or last year we read Killers.

If you guys watched the video back, it was really funny because we had 75 of us in the pit for that via the contest.

And so we all, you know, had a few beach balls.

So we had, I don't know, hundreds of beach balls passing them out to everybody.

And we're like, hey, on the third song, you're somewhere between the first song that Mr. Brightside comes on at the core.

Too many rules.

We should have said, get them whenever Mr. Brightside comes on.

But they open with Mr. Brightside.

You don't want to play in too too much.

All this product, though, you're talking about, boy, I hope you have a really good silent investor because this money racks up fast.

I tell you what, whenever you have 250 something people, you know, that are pitching in, it adds up fast too.

God, I can't get two people in our group to pitch in.

Brad is our sugar daddy.

That's one of our rules.

Everybody pitches in, you know, twenty five, thirty bucks and it covers your shirt. And last year we made bandanas. We bought party tents.

We bought all this stuff. So everybody pitches in.

And that's really, I think, what really helps us kind of to gravitas over the whole situation.

We're a little bit opposite.

We do a lot of planning as far as the tent, but there's no expectation that we're all going to do anything together.

No, barely.

We never go anywhere as a group.

Ever.

Ever.

We've never gone to one show as all twelve of us ever.

No, no.

And I don't think I'd want to go.

No, no. And that's the beauty of it.

It would change your.

Yeah.

Well, no, for us, that's what works.

It works because there's no because, you know, if somebody didn't want to go, then we don't want to mopey person with us.

Well, then why do we camp with Brian?

We need that.

All right. So let's move on to Bonnarooo 2019 because the tickets are out and you can you can go ahead and purchase tickets now.

You guys I've been noticing on your Twitter how much you've been pushing for one thing that in particular that I've been trying to say similarly, even though I'm not a big fan.

You guys have been asking tweet after tweet after tweet.

When will the medal come back?

There is something missing in Bonnarooo.

That medal show.

Now, I'm not a medal fan, but boy, there is something missing when, you know, I'll never forget the day where war was playing.

And at five o'clock in the morning, a guy was walking back to camp as I was leaving camp.

He was covered in fake blood.

You know, they had the emergency people running at him because they thought he was dying.

We need that.

The farm needs it back, man.

Yes, yes.

We're definitely an eclectic group.

So by no means is routine clan strictly metal by any means.

But we do.

You know, we're eclectic.

So, you know, I was actually turning to I think he was the barista, the guy who was running the account.

He's a while back.

He was kind of asking people, you know, hey, who do you want to show up at the medal side?

Pretty much in Kansas City, we have a thing called Rock Fed every year.

And it's like 100,000 people on one day.

And it's just you have seven does Blackberry Smoke.

You have Jesse James Dupree.

And then also another you have Rob Zombie.

I mean, you know, man, Rob Zombie on the farm.

Someone's going to show up.

Yeah, it is.

It is something that has been I think it's more indicative of the overall feel of the festival in that it's the parody has really been pared down in the past few years.

You know, with all that we've been hearing and how AC is taking back the booking, I wonder if we're going to see that expanded and opened up a little bit.

But who are you guys thinking, feeling, wanting at Bonnarooo?

I actually have a couple of things written down.

I was thinking about this last night.

It's middle November.

So, of course you were.

Of course you were thinking about it.

Of course.

So the headliners, I mean, I know it's been out there, but I really want Paul McCartney back on the farm.

I wasn't in 14 or was either 14 or 13.

It was 13.

I wanted to see him.

And then I've seen our fake fire, but I haven't seen Arctic Monkeys.

I want to see them.

And then either Childish Gambino or Gorillaz for the headliner.

And then a mixture of Kid Cudi, Odessa, Skrillex, Forrest Gump, some pretty light lives, RTJ.

I want to hear Dolly Parton.

We've been screaming about that.

We've been screaming about that for weeks.

I heard that on your podcast last year.

I remember some Dolly love.

A greedy wish of mine, and this is completely just bald faced greed, pipe dream.

I want Dr. Heath and the Electric Manham, the Muppets band to show up.

Interesting. Good picks.

That's all over.

What about you, Richard?

There you go.

Well, I tell you, I've got a list, and I wish I did enough research on who's chewing with the likelihood of everything.

I mean, I've heard the rumors about fish.

I would love fish to come back.

I've never seen them on the farm.

I haven't really seen the dead that year.

The dead and company were really great that year.

I think that'd be a fun way to close it out.

I think that we need Jay-Z as a headliner.

I think he'd bring an awesome show.

My favorite artist of all time is Beck.

That's a great show.

I saw him at the Hollywood Bowl this year, and his show, he gets better.

He's like a fine wine.

He's getting better and better.

Every album he puts out gives him more.

His band is so insanely tight right now.

It is so tight.

Yeah, this tour right now is really good.

I saw that he is on, what is it, Shakenese?

Yeah, Shakenese.

Come on down to the Southeast.

We'll go to Shakenese together.

Yeah, I'm contemplating it.

I mean, Tam and Paula Beck are top two of me.

That'd be great.

But Odessa would be amazing.

I really love Tyco.

My first year when we saw them, or the second year when we saw them.

Justice is a band that I think would do really well on the farm.

I've seen Justice, but Justice is not doing any more shows.

Yeah, I guess they're done for the decade.

So that sucks.

So take that back.

You know, something that I think is interesting is there's some bands that I think,

maybe it's another topic, but there's some bands that got screwed on their time slot

that I think should get a shot to come back.

That is actually a great topic.

That is a fantastic topic, actually.

And I'll go to the first one that comes to mind,

Speak of the Devil, last year's Jungle Show.

Jungle should not ever be in the day of light, in the light of day.

They should always be at night.

That light show is tremendous.

And you lose 30% of the show if it's in daylight.

That's why we had to do a pizza party, you know, help do a pizza party to make up for the lack.

But yeah, I thought that that was a really bad, you know, Alt J,

it looks like it ended last year, but Alt J, I think, could have swapped the future,

would have made it much better.

What stage show?

But, you know, there's some bands that come to mind that got screwed.

Bob Moses.

Are you guys familiar with them?

I am. Yeah, I like Bob Moses a lot.

They, you know, when they got added a couple of years ago, they were like the only non-bottom,

the schedule was already out, they were the only non-bottom band I was listening to.

And I'm so excited when they got added out of the blue.

Yeah.

And then they got slotted right in between, you know, Tame and Paula, M83, Tame and Paula.

And it was like, so I think they should get another shot to come back at a better time slot.

You know, Klingstaff, did you guys see them a couple of years ago?

Maybe it's too quick for them to come back.

But they had like a 1pm show a couple of years ago.

Caribou a couple of years ago, that's another band that I like a lot.

They had a Sunday slot that, you know, if you're trying to see any of the headliners on Sunday,

or you know, you missed them.

Rudimental had a weird slot a few years back.

The one, yeah, the year that Sam Smith came out for that show.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's right.

We missed it.

I forget who they were.

There was a conflict.

I can't remember if it was a Sunday show, but I remember it was like during the day,

and it just didn't kind of work.

Yeah, that's, there's some new bands that I think, in fact, we saw Bob Moses here in

LA a few weeks back.

And the opener is this band called Neo Francis, the duo.

So Bob Moses touring with another band that sounds like a dude.

But anyways, they were fantastic.

I don't know if you guys are familiar, but they're, I'm just wearing them out right now.

I love Neo Francis.

Tom Mish.

I love Tom Mish so much.

Yeah, so do I.

There's a band that hasn't ever played before, and now that they're not doing the, I thought

these guys would be a lock for the bluegrass situation when they were doing that, but they

should add, are you guys familiar with the Dust Bowl Revival?

Yes.

Yeah, they are.

They are so fantastic, and a lot of them live here in LA.

Most of them actually are based here in LA, so we see them when we can.

But they're just a fantastic band that I think, that I hope Bonnarooo reaches out to this year.

And then, you know, I could literally go on forever.

You have a very substantial list, and here's what I think is interesting, Barry, as two

guys that have done this for 14 years, right?

Now, I could go on and talk about the artists that I want at Bonnarooo this year.

It's going to be Rex Orange County.

There's not a artist I've fallen in love with more the last year than Rex Orange County.

But, when I go to make my list, there's never ever going to be a Paul McCartney on it.

There's never going to be a Odessa on it.

Mainly because of the exact reasons why you guys want them on the list is the same reason

why I don't want them on the list.

I've already seen it.

And I keep forgetting-

We had that discussion once before.

I keep forgetting this part where people haven't been to Bonnarooo for a decade plus like we

have.

There are people that are in love with Bonnarooo like Richard and Dan are that are still on

their fourth Bonnarooo or their fifth Bonnarooo.

And I lose perspective on that sometimes.

And I've got to remember that just because Paul McCartney was this magical, amazing moment

for me, and I don't want it to come back because I think it waters down the experience that

I had, I keep forgetting that Richard and Dan haven't had that experience.

I haven't had it.

And I think what did we, I think I heard from, I don't know if you guys are familiar, we're

in Chattanooga, which is like 90 miles away from, no, 60 miles away from Manchester and

Knoxville, which is where AC Entertainment is.

So, you know, we see those guys all the time, but I think, what did they tell me?

60% of fans every year are new fans.

Yeah.

You know, in our mind, in our, yeah, in our mind, we think it's the same 99% every year.

Right.

Coming back, but it's all new fans.

So yeah, they've not seen, they didn't see that show or the, you know, Radiohead or whatever.

Yeah.

I mean, sometimes it's, and see, my wife's kind of in that camp, like, you know, if we've

already seen a band two or three times, she doesn't want to go the fourth or fifth, you

know, when they come to town.

And it goes both ways, you know, we've already seen them, or like Bob Moses, for example,

is touring right now.

They have this new album out that's one of my favorite of the year, and I've got to see

them play it with that stuff.

Right.

And there's bands that I, you know, Pearl Jam is, is all a favorite of mine too.

And, you know, I'd seen them before, but never on the farm, you know, and when they were

there, it was just that year.

It just, it was just a perfect year.

And I don't know if anybody has tape of that show, please, please, please let me see it,

because we are 99% sure that Eddie Vedder gave Roots and Klan a shout out.

We were talking about Podem.

Wow.

My jaw dropped.

If anybody has tape of that, we want proof.

Yeah.

Because if so, my life is, I can die now.

I should point out that, you know, Brad complaining about seeing McCartney twice.

He's the same guy that's seen Brittany Howard.

How many times?

Alabama Shakes, 18 times.

18 times.

I think there's an FBI file somewhere.

I think so.

They were amazing.

There's a couple other bands to throw out there.

Bonobo, like, I don't know if Bonobo has been there, but he had a great show, a great tour

last year.

In fact, we went to see Bob Moses, they were the opener.

And then he had this like, he had string, he had brass.

See, I love something that I'd like to see Bonnarooo kind of turn towards is, you know,

with the EDM kind of, you know, now we've got the other and so many people are coming

for these EDM artists, electronic artists.

Some of the best electronic shows are when a band's actually up there playing, you know,

like Bob Moses or Rufus DeSalle last year, which was my favorite show.

That was a great show.

If we could find, you know, like Anodesa and, you know, band Tycho, you know, STS9 was great

last year.

They're more of kind of DM.

Goldfish one year.

Goldfish was great.

But, you know, Bonobo is a band like that I think would be really, really interesting.

Well, he's a guy, but he has this really cool show with brass and string.

You know, SKJ, he had a raw spot a few years back.

I think he was like Silent Disco or Lane 8 was Silent Disco.

He's really good.

But SKJ, there's this really cool video of him online, you know, looping a bunch of stuff,

playing a bunch of instruments.

I don't know.

You know what just hit me, Richard?

You are, I'm guessing now based on what you told me earlier, I'm guessing you're now 42

and you are running laps around me talking EDM acts.

I have no idea who half of these people are that you're talking about.

For the record, I just turned 40 this year.

Okay.

Well, congratulations.

I feel better about it.

Yeah.

I'm glad you're okay.

Hey, guys, I'm so excited and so happy to be able to talk to you guys.

If you've noticed anything about Bonnarooo, this podcast, at least, we take just as much

enjoyment of talking shop and Bonnarooo with Bonnarooians as we do the actual artists.

And I hope to God we get to see you on the farm.

Oh, we're going to make sure it happens, my man.

Yeah, it was an honor to have you guys.

We love what you guys are doing.

Keeping the Bonnarooo spirit alive year round.

Great minds think alike.

Yeah, keep on doing what you're doing.

I think like we said earlier, I don't think people, including ourselves, realize how much

this has become a year round thing and an important part of people's lives.

It's not just the four days.

Or in our case, the seven.

I know you guys have probably got to go, but have you noticed that growing?

Yes, absolutely.

It's a much bigger thing now than like five years ago as far as the November talk, right?

Absolutely.

It is expanding.

The map of the calendar is expanding a lot wider.

And I mean, part of that is manipulation. You're a PR guy.

You know PR.

A lot of it's manipulation of the calendar.

And they have to do it for Black Friday shopping.

And they have to do it for because Coachella lineups coming out this week or next week.

And Hangout Festival came out today.

And so they have to keep this conversation moving because look, they're in a ticket selling business.

And never before until now has ticket sales been so important for their business model

because they haven't had many lately.

I don't disagree with that, Brad, but what I'm seeing more of is like the people who every day say,

hey, it's 245 days.

I can't wait to get back to my favorite place.

So it's a little bit of both sides, I think.

Well, you know, they're also refreshing Reddit five times.

Right. Exactly.

Yeah. I mean, but there's probably a little bit in that subconsciously.

And I hate to get way off in the weeds here, but subconsciously there's my there may be something about how

politically we are in such an absolute shit show and we are in such a weird place.

Take me back to a happy place.

Yes. In this world, we're in such a bad place where everything's divided.

Everybody's angry. Everybody's upset.

There's disaster on the TV every second of the day.

There is one thing in my life.

I'm talking generically.

There's one thing in my life that ties us all together with happiness.

And it's this thing I remember called Bonnarooo where no matter what my ideological perspectives are,

I know this guy was my friend at Bonnarooo and we're going to be OK.

Yeah. Good point. Take me back to my happy place.

I think you have a lot to do with it.

Hey, by the way, Richard, can't wait to see Killer Man.

I'm very excited about that.

Oh, good. Yeah, we've got a...

Just kidding.

...that you looked about.

No, I know. You said Blue Fox Entertainment, so I immediately went.

Yeah. Killer Man. No, St. Judy will be the next big one.

It's a true story about an immigration attorney named Judy Wood.

Oh, good.

It's played by Michelle Monahan, Common's in it, Alfred Medina, Alfred Woodard, great cast, Peter Krause.

All based on a true story.

This is great.

Coming to you March 1st.

Yeah, get the plug in. Dan, do you have something to plug?

New product coming out, Dan.

Sorry, I thought we stopped rolling by now.

But yeah, it's going to be a good movie.

Dan's like, I'm going to be doing a selfie video here in about an hour if you want to know.

Love it.

Thanks guys so much and hopefully we'll talk to you soon. Good luck.

Thank you.

Absolutely. Keep in touch.

Thank you guys.

Dan and Richard, the Ru Tang Clan, at the Ru Tang Clan on Twitter and of course anywhere on your info.ru and reddits.

Now, before we wrap up, because the next time we talk to you is probably going to be lineup time,

and that's when the heat really gets going, right?

Dead of winter, it doesn't get any hotter than when lineup comes out, right?

And let's say, like we've done for the last two years, we'll do it live.

I mean, we'll have it for this podcast, but we'll also do...

Do you want to?

Yeah. I mean, we'll do it for the paper like we did the last two years.

Yeah, for Chattanooga Times 3 Press?

Absolutely.

We can send out some updates on that and we can watch it live along with you, I guess,

ChattanoogaTimes3Press.com, or we'll send out some links as the time gets closer.

Do we have any news that we want to get through before we go?

Any news like, oh, the on-sales?

The on-sales started what, a week ago, depending on when you're hearing this, but the presale, so it's coming.

It's happening.

You know, when you were talking earlier about the announcement coming out, if they get it out in front of Christmas,

you know, that becomes a gift for folks.

Yeah, I mean, and it's cheap right now.

It's never going to get any cheaper than right now.

Right. And seriously, look at the group thing.

If you're hesitant about going by yourself or just even two of you, look at that, because that sounds like a lot of fun.

No kidding. That's my angle.

Whenever I get kicked out of Camp Nut Butter, whenever I'm excommunicated for good,

that's my next step is group camping. I'm coming, Rutan Clan.

I mean, you're my people. You're my people.

What do you say, 250?

It's a lot, man. That is a lot of people that sort of get organized.

Right.

Like, I don't even want to, I can't get 12 of you on the same page.

No, I know. I thought about that.

I don't know how in the league it's 250.

I thought about that. If I had to worry about, I don't like worrying about you.

I can't imagine worrying about 250 other people.

Can you come help me fix my toilet at the house?

Yeah, I'm on the way.

Okay, good. Hey, we'll see you next time on the What Podcast.