The What Podcast
Jeff Cuellar of AC Entertainment
Season 2, Episode 2
Published January 27, 2019
https://beta.thewhatpodcast.com/episode/jeff-cuellar-of-ac-entertainment

Wide awake and ready for season 2 of the what podcast

The what podcast, a podcast for Bonnaroovians by Bonnaroovians

This is Barry Courter for the Chattanooga Times Free Press

I'm Brad Steiner from Hit 96 WDOD Radio in Chattanooga

20 weeks away from Bonnarooo which means 20 shows for you

Give or take, I don't know, 15 or so

Just depending on how much energy we have

Exactly

How wide awake are we going to be for season 2?

Will we stay woke?

I think so, yeah, definitely, I'm feeling woke

You feel woke?

I feel woke

Man, for an old man like you to be woke

You're really an inspiration, man

Well, you kids keep me young

Do I? Do we? That's very nice

Speaking of kids, we've got a young one on today

A Bonnarooo newbie on the show today

To start season 2, we thought that we would open the floor to somebody who's never really been to Bonnarooo before

Oh yeah?

I'm kidding

I thought so

Yeah, that was sarcasm

I thought so

Apparently I'm not as woke as I thought I was

Yeah, we thought that the best way to start season 2 is to

Before we got into the artist, before we got into what this year 2019 has to offer for us

We thought that we'd get a behind the scenes view of it, take of it

And what the thought process of putting this festival on for what year?

2016, 2017?

Yeah, since 2002

Last year we had Ashley Caps on to fill that role

And this year I think we got someone just as knowledgeable and just as much information

Maybe not as Ashley since he's the co-founder

Yeah, his name is on the thing

Yeah, Jeff Cuellar is who we're talking about

Jeff is vice president of, what would we call it?

Strategic Operations I think is what the title was

Strategic Planning or something

Yeah, it's a big long title and he talks about that

But it was really interesting talking to him and hearing some of the behind the scenes stuff

He says a lot of the things that we have said now for going on year 2

What makes Bonnarooo a different festival

But to hear it from his perspective I thought was really good

If you are a Bonnarooo junkie and not so much a junkie about the artists and the playlists and stuff like that

If you're really into the minutia of how this thing is put together

If you're one of those guys on InfoRoo trying to figure out what exactly this machine is and how it's put together

I thought this conversation was phenomenal

He gave us so many Easter eggs and so many bits of information that sort of put the whole thing together

There's all these puzzle pieces missing

If you really listen to his conversation and listen to things that he says

He drops a lot of information on you if you're one of these guys that tries to figure out the mechanics of all of this

You know we've talked about that, we've paid attention to that

You and I are both veterans from almost the beginning

While it seems on the one hand that everything is very planned and that they've had this long term plan

Which they have adapted over time

You remember he talks about as we all saw 3-4 years ago when the numbers started dropping

He talks about why, the fact that there were so many new festivals and people had choices

And they needed to adapt, they needed to figure out how to do that

He talks about the infrastructure

You'll hear we laugh about planting grass, planting trees and things like that

That I don't think, especially first timers, why would you?

You would never think about that

But for those of us that remember the Dust Bowl days, the grass is a huge thing

Man I'll never forget standing, I was on the bleachers

They used to have bleachers, I don't know if they had last year

But they used to have bleachers right in front of the witch stage

They still do, it's the VIP

I was standing at the very top level of those bleachers for iron and wine

And I looked back and I saw that year the dust that was just covering

I couldn't see 20 feet in front of me

Unbelievable how far it's come from those days just as an infrastructure project

That was about my second or third year

And they used to have a parade on Saturday evening

Everyone would kind of go back to their camp, shower, regroup, do whatever

And then the evening would start

It was myself and our photographer at the time, we did just that

We followed the parade and walked into Centeroo

And I thought, wow, this is really big time, they've set off smoke

They've got smoke machines to have this parade

And then we realized it was dust

People were in bandanas around their noses

No Barry, it might have been smoke

No, it was the dust

And I remember thinking I've got Legionnaires disease

I'm going home with Legionnaires

It was bad

So to reset a little bit, this is a podcast mostly about Bonnaroo, the what

If you just found us or if you've been around forever, thank you very much

I'm Brad, that's Barry

We're just some Bonnaroo vets who like talking about Bonnaroo

And if this is your first time joining us, we hope to meet you at Bonnaroo

Hope that you can reach out to us at the whatpodcast.com

Or at the what underscore podcast on Twitter

We love communicating with you

And if you drop us a line on our website, we'll enter you in for a ticket

And yes, we do have tickets to give away this year again, just like last season

Just as a couple of housekeeping matters before we get into our chat with Jeff Cuellar

Which, by the way, I am consistently blown away with how free people are with their time

When it comes to talking to us

Jeff Cuellar gave us 50 minutes, man

This is a busy dude

To spend 50 minutes on the phone with anybody, I don't remember the last time I did that

So for him to do it is an enormous task

So all gratitude to him

Secondly, this year on the show, because we have 20 weeks to cover

We were thinking about opening it up a little bit

We want to open it up to some other festivals and some other experiences that we like

And that might be able to shine some light on the festival experience in general

So in the upcoming weeks, I hope that we can start to dive into some other experiences

Some other shows, some other festivals

Start talking about some other artists that may be playing some other festivals

And maybe even get some people on the phone that organize and run some of these festivals

Yeah, I think it's a great idea

Jeff, you'll hear we talk a little bit about Moon River

Which is a festival that AC runs that is here in Chattanooga as one comparison

But there are a lot of others

And I don't think we want to compare while we're doing these shows

It's just more of a, like you said, these are different ways that different festivals operate

And different experiences

They all have a specific reason to exist, right?

And to be able to differentiate that over and over and over

Makes you understand it a lot easier, I think

So I'd like to do that this year

If we can maybe pick off a couple of weeks here and there to talk about some other festivals

That'd be nice

But of course our focus is going to be, of course, with Manchester and Bonnarooo

And again, if you want to reach out and give us any suggestions

Or you want to talk about any artists

Hit us up, The What underscore podcast on Twitter or at thewhatpodcast.com

Alright, so let's get into Jeff Cuellar

And see how this festival has gotten so big and so important

Over its almost two decades of bringing us magic to Manchester

The excitement on the answer has just gotten me amped up

Oh my goodness, boy

I was coming in a little slap and he just hit me with straight fire right there

And I'm like, let's do this

Man, I threw it

I came in a little hot, huh? I came in a little hot

You came in extremely hot, but I love it

My energy was starting to deplete now

I thought what a mile

Believe me, after I have to explain your enormous title at AC Entertainment

I'm going to be spent

I will be gassed

And undone

Once I say the Vice President of Strategic Partnerships from AC Entertainment, Jeff Cuellar

Hello, sir

It used to be worse than that, that's my better title

Is it really? What does that mean actually, by the way?

Just for giggles

It's all smoke and mirrors, I don't like to tell anybody

If I tell you, then we've got problems

The best job title is one that has just been created on the fly

Those are really the most ideal work situations

Where my title comes into, it's quite funny

We don't have one for Bono because I'm the product of having been there for so long

That I've accumulated work

Versus what I do for AC Entertainment specifically

Is I handle all of our revenue generating streams outside of ticket sales and merch

Gotcha

So that's where strategic partnerships comes in

So it can be sponsorship, it can be our partnership in terms of correlations with the city

It can be enhanced experience like VIP, platinum, that type of stuff

Concessions, those other types of things

But with Bono specifically, I mean I do so many damn weird positions

I mean I used to oversee catering

Somehow vehicle operations are still in my purview

So you're the guy we call for the golf cart, huh?

So Jeff, your title is Get Jeff to Do It

Yeah

That's, you know, we joked in Bono Land from the very beginning

When you came up with a great idea, you just gave yourself more work

Yeah, yeah

Thanks for all the work

That was your idea, then way to go

Nashville Shuttle, that was my idea and I'm still running it to this day

Let's be honest, I don't do shuttle programs for any of other festivals

Man, last year I would have came up with a job title for myself and said

Artist Relations for Nothing but Dua Lipa

Whatever she needs, I'm gonna have, you know what, I guess I can take this job

I can do Dua Lipa if I need to

That sounds good

Let me say, Jeff, thanks for doing this

But this is important because this is why we're talking to you

Is because you do wear a lot of hats up there

So you're gonna be able to answer a lot of the questions that we're gonna have, so

All of my questions I'll be answering in the form of a question, so be prepared for that

I know, yeah, you're very good at this, so I'm ready for it

Well, first off, congratulations on the rollout

You guys have to be extremely pleased at the reaction

Because when I look around at some of the headlines aside from just like

Here's who's playing Bonnarooo, but some of the headlines are some that I haven't seen in a couple years

Most popular Bonnarooo lineup in years, weirdest in years, and that's in a good way

Bonnarooo is back, headline after headline

The press back to you guys gotta be, I guess, heart-thawing

It is, and I probably would love to quote though, you know, what Prince

When he was asked at the time, you know, how do you feel about Justin Timberlake bringing sexy back

And his response was, it never left

Kind of quoting himself, and you know, I would say Bonnarooo never left

You know, we went down some paths and have been doing some things

But what I'm really excited about this year probably more than anything

Is the lineup takes you on a path

So whether you're a Fish fan, a Childish fan, an Odessa fan, a National fan, whoever it may be

Post Malone, Luminers, you have a path for you throughout the festival

And then hopefully you're going to deviate from that path and challenge yourself

With things that you may not have been expecting and come out with a greater appreciation for live music

And what these amazing artists are out there doing

But even outside of the lineup, there are a lot of phenomenal festivals out there

And what I think Bonnarooo is different is the experience

I mean, how many festivals do you not leave once you get there?

You're sleeping there, and if you want to party until the sun rises

In the same place that you were at 2 o'clock in the afternoon, you can do that

If you want to jump campsites and hang out with people that are from Spain, you can do that

It's all of that together and the things we're doing out in the campgrounds

And some of those incremental things we've been doing throughout the years

I think there's this recognition finally like, wow, there is a lot here

And if I'm comparing where I'm going to spend my discretionary income

Not that, again, not that any of those other festivals are bad

I'm going to go to Mecca, I'm going to go to the place where it is special

And I can really disconnect for the next five days

Jeff, talk about that transition, because you and I have been talking since the beginning basically

And I'm one of those guys that is asked, how about the people complaining that it's not jam band anymore?

How about people that the numbers are down? All those sort of things that the journalists have been asking

But this year, and I would say Brad and I fall into this, and sorry for using the word camp

But we've been there being critical and we've been there loving it

And what last year came to the realization that the experience is as much a part of it as the lineup

From an insider's point, you guys have been saying that forever

What does it feel like to now basically have the rest of us get it, if that's the right way to put it?

It feels great, we kind of have about time

I think that that feeling was always there, but what we kind of had is one, I don't want to say an explosion within the festival space

But there definitely was, there were more options on the table

I mean from your Okeechobee to Electric Forest to Fireflies, and all the Coachella's and Lala's, I mean you name it

And the options are out there, I mean heck, you can start getting on the smaller stuff like your high waters, your moon rivers

And things along those lines, there are plenty of options out there

And I think what we never did a great job at doing is talking about why Bonnarooo is different

And how that festival experience differentiates from everybody else

And I think once we started having a lot of that competition come to the table

For us it was, we always felt like our lineup and what we were able to produce there was enough

We focused on the experience and did a lot there, but we were pulling things off like the police

We know we're getting Paul McCartney out there

I think you had some of the competitors catch up

And so why we've always had this amazing diverse lineup

You can go back to the very beginning and you look at, yeah we had Jam Band, but we also had Jurassic Five

We also had Reggae, Toots in the Maze Halls and things along those lines

James Brown in year two

Exactly, James Brown

It's always been, the focus from our standpoint is amazing live music

And every performer that's graced our stages has gone and has been noted as being able to put on a hell of a show

A live show, and I think it's rooted in good music, good live music

We can debate some of the intricacies of it, but I think it's always been the foundation

And we rooted ourselves in that, but never had to really talk about the experience and the campgrounds and plazas

And all of those different things that make it change

That's where we can talk about it, and others can't

That has been kind of a focus for us, is saying, okay, if everyone has the ability to get some of these artists that are out for the festivals

And we all know that pool is only so big, then how can we continue to be Bonnarooo and lead?

And I think that's it, is really kind of showcasing what we can do experience-wise, how that's different, why you should be a part of that

Why camping is an amazing thing versus something that should make you think differently

Let's think differently in a good way

The philanthropic side of it, the planet Roo, how we give back to the local community

All of those things that are intertwined into the Bonnaroovian spirit and soul

I think we've just now done a better job at really talking about it

Instead of just saying, line up, line up, line up, it's now been more, hey, let's talk about all these other things that true Bonnaroovians know

I think that has been the biggest shift, is that the discussion about camping went from, it's so hot, it's a negative

To, this is where it's so much fun

It's a great point, how can you survive camp was the conversation

Now it's, why would I be at camp?

Why would I leave camp?

Yes, there's so many things to do, who's camp am I going to?

It's a huge change

That's it

And it's a great point that you make about being a slave to whatever artist pool that you have to jump in

Because, look, everybody's drawing from the same group

And you can get lost, and we have, everybody has, everybody that follows this has gotten lost in the year to year

Insider baseball about who's going to be where, who's playing what, and why didn't they come here

But what you guys, I guess, saw more than we did, because I don't know, it's your business too

You guys did have a plan five years ago, seven years ago

You guys were thinking so much differently than where we were

Because we were wrapped up in, why aren't we getting this blankety blank like we used to

Why aren't we doing this, we lost a little bit of the focus

And you guys stayed dead on the tracks and stayed consistent

And didn't really worry too much about the noise

But it's fine

I think you're exactly right

When it does come to the lineup though, you said something very interesting to me a few minutes ago

When you start creating lanes to the headliner

When you guys put together the lineup, and I had somebody from AC tell me this a couple years ago

And I guess I understood it, but to put a finer point on it

When you guys put together a headlining bill of Post Malone, Phish, Childish Gambino, National

You then also tried to find corresponding artists that can layer within that sort of artist lane

You try to find corresponding artists that can support those types of headliners

Exactly

Okay, so it's not normally a correction

It's the way it has to be

Yeah, so if you're a Phish fan and you're arriving on Thursday or Wednesday when the campground opens

It is there for you

So let's think about the path for a Phish fan and the kind of

I don't want to call me expected

But what would a typical fan like to see throughout those days to know that

Okay, my Phish dollars, this is where I want to go see Phish

Because it's not the only place they have to go see it

If I'm a Childish Gambino fan, what is my path Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday

If I'm a Cardi B fan, what's my path

If I'm an Odessa fan, what is my path

And thinking about those top couple lines as the path

And what I think our booking team does better than anybody is think about

If you're here, even more than a city festival

If you're going to be on our property for four to five days

Then that path is critical for success

Being able to look at that and analyze, okay, what do we have here and how does that go about

And occasionally they let me sit in on the booking media

That's the part of one thing I don't do with the festival is I don't book

I don't book the talent

But I do get asked some questions just because I am a music fan

And it's talking about, okay, if this is who I'm going to see, what else do you have for me

And being able to say, okay, here's everything for you in that bucket

Here's everything for you in this bucket

And again, I think our true Bonnaroovians, they look at that path

And then they're immediately looking off to the tangential stuff

And it's like, where can I deviate that from that path

And then what we found through data, which has been hilarious

Is you look at the way people schedule their lineup

Like what are they going to go see

So you take pre-festival, what are they saying they're going to go see

And then what did they go see

And it just shows you where the influencers of your friends

And the people you're camping with and the people you meet

Help you deviate from that

Whereas, you know, they may go, you're talking with someone that's like

Hey, you don't know about Ducky, we need to go see Ducky

And that may interrupt something else you were going to go see

And now you've discovered someone else that you may not be ready for

I think that was one of my favorite parts about talking to Ashley Capps last year

The AC and AC Entertainment was

I think Brad asked, do you make a list like the rest of us

And the answer was yes, and how often do you stick to it

And he said, never, no one ever does

It never works that way

But that's phenomenal that you guys actually have the physical data

That can reinforce that feeling or that thought

That, yeah, we were going to go see the Avett brothers

But we found ourselves at Girl Talk

That's phenomenal that you guys are actually tracking that

And what you guys would then use for next year

Did you use some of that data to plan for this year

It helps

But I think another challenge that I guess you can look at

Based from where we started to where we're at now

Technology has disrupted all of it

You know what I mean, back when Bonnarooo started, it was still your email list

It's still, you know, Sish fans and some of the jam bands sitting around those tapes

You know, we didn't have Spotify and that type of stuff now

So how fast an artist can explode from nobody knowing about them

And, you know, not even having a full album out

To gaining a spot on a festival bill

And then what happened even from when they announced

To when they actually play

I mean, easy examples that come off the top

I mean, back when we had Mumford the first time

And when we had Phoenix

When we booked them to where they were at the festival

I mean, there were questions about what stage we were putting them on

Because their popularity exploded between now and that time

And that's kind of the fun

But it's also the challenge of it

Because we didn't have to worry about that as much as you do now

I mean, some of these artists are just in weeks going from, you know, club acts to, you know, potentially amphitheaters

And there's something along those lines

And guess what? Your Saturday headliner is the quintessential where did he come from

Post Malone's last 12 months have been unbelievable

And you may not be a Post Malone fan

But you can't deny this kid was playing a 500 seat theater 12 months ago

13 months ago and now he is doing the What Stage Saturday Night at Bonnarooo

That is a phenomenal, phenomenal story

I think that I know this for sure

The only artist to ever have a number one single while they were also playing Bonnarooo

Was a late ad that you guys added

It might have been 2009 or so

Fun

You guys added fun at the last minute

And when they stepped on stage at this

It was on that

When they stepped on stage at that

They had a number one single

That was the first time that ever happened

And you might be able to say that for the second time coming up this year

I didn't know that's fun fact

You educated me there

Yeah, those kind of stories are exactly what Bonnarooo is about

We're going to jump back into the conversation with Jeff Quaggar here in a second

There's some phenomenal information that he is dropping

Some nuggets of brilliance that I never knew about Bonnarooo

In the way that they at least organized the lineup

That kind of stuff is phenomenal to me

We'll talk to him a little bit more here in a second

But just real quickly

If you haven't rated or reviewed the podcast

I know in this first season we didn't bring this up at all

We didn't necessarily have much of a direction or know exactly where we were going with this

But it turns out that's sort of important

So we didn't ask anything of you last year

We didn't ask you or beg or plead for you to rate or review it

But if you haven't that would be very, very nice of you

Now we're begging

Yeah, now I've gotten to the point where it's begging time

It's come to this

Well, it's because we had such a bizarrely

And I'll be honest a bizarrely huge reaction to the show the first season

So I never really thought it would get there

I never thought we would even need to be rated or reviewed

Now it seems like we do

And the reason why it's important is that the more ratings and reviews that you get

The higher you get up on the store level thing, right?

So the closer you get to the top

And we want to make it as easy as possible for you and your friends to listen

So if you've got friends that are tinkering with the idea of Bonnarooo

Or tinkering with the idea of festivals in general

Or maybe like some of the artists that we talk about

Then share it with them

The more people that listen

The easier it's going to be for not only you to find us

But get bigger artists on the show

And more access that we can get then to share with you

It makes everything a lot easier

Exactly

As we're finding people seem to like it

And it helps foster the whole Bonnarooo community

Which is what we've discovered

I think that this is what this is all about

That's right

And the more people that we can tie into this little podcast

The better

The RooBuses of the world

The Bonnarooosters

The Festival Owls

Anybody that is in our hemisphere

We want to bring in as well

Because the more people that we have talking about Bonnarooo

The better

Because if there's anything that we learned about this show

Is that, boy, we really, really like talking Bonnarooo

We like talking

And I think we are surprised at how much we discover that we didn't know

Right

Like the general admission camping area

The GA camping

The group camping

We do nothing about until we talk to Ru-Tang

Those guys

And the RooBus

There's just so much more to Bonnarooo

Going and sitting in a field and watching an act

Right, and there's more to Bonnarooo than just the acts

RooBus, RooShoot, Ru-Tang Clan, on and on and on

Those are almost as big as the acts themselves for me

Exactly

You know, like those guys do something out there that's so special

That I want to be a part of

And also that it's a lot more year round

Than we ever would have considered

Ever would have imagined

Never

I mean, we're here at the end of January

Saying, all right, it's time to start talking Bonnarooo

No, we never stopped

That's the weirdest thing

We never really stopped

Our guest today, Jeff Cuellar

Starting season number two

Jeff Cuellar from AC Entertainment

Jeff, I keep thinking about

A couple things you've said to me over the years

And talking about being on site

And how that makes a difference

Brad and I were both in Louisville at Forecastle

When that storm hit

Came across the river

And I can still see you running down the sidewalk

Trying to clear the place

Sam Smith here

Yeah

Sam Smith

That poor guy had the fireworks going on

It was not going to happen for Sam

But then I was

It was literally

And now here's Sam Smith

Three, two, one

Good night everybody

Run for your lives

But I don't know if it was the next year

Or the one after at Bonnarooo

Where the storm came in late

And you had to clear the site

And everything was back up and running

Within an hour and a half

That was in Macklemore

Yeah

You said to me either that night

Or the first thing next morning

Is who else can take an hour and a half hit like that

Clear the site

And be back on total schedule

90 minutes later

And I think we talk about the fact that you're on the farm

There's nowhere else to go

Might as well go see music

But it's also that, right?

You're there

It's contained

It can go around the clock

That makes it a different animal

I think you're exactly right

I mean it really does make it a different kind of animal

I mean we look at ourselves as a city

We go from farmland to a full city

You know, over the course of our build

And then go right back to farmland again

But the fact that we're able to kind of create there

And think about it from that standpoint

That we're the seventh largest city in Tennessee for one

You know, for that five day period

I think it's an accomplishment

And it shows that yes, you do have all of these other experiences out there

But no other festival becomes a city like this

And then dissipates back to farmland

And then they come back to you

I think it's part of that overall magic that makes Bonnarooo Bonnarooo

You mentioned the experiences

And that's what I think we want to get into next

It appears from, again, this sort of regular outsider

That there have been a lot of phases

The early phases were getting the roads graded

The landscape graded so that the rain ran off the way it needed to

Planning some trees, planting the grass that could withstand that type of people

Building that bridge from the what to the right

Yeah, the bridge saving the world

Saving my life with that bridge

The bridge

The bathrooms

The bathrooms

And then it seemed like the efforts were sort of into the VIP experiences

And the last two, maybe three years have been the general admission camp

The plazas

The plazas

I mean, is that a fair assessment?

Was it planned that way?

I wouldn't say it was completely planned that way

I mean, the infrastructure pieces were more from the standpoint of

To make the site a better overall experience

Like, no one's sitting there asking for what Fescue, I think it's Fescue

I'm hoping I'm quoting that right

Fescue grass in Central Roo and the main venue where the headline stage is at

I know, and I write about it every year, Jeff

And I sit and I think, I can't believe I'm writing about grass at a music festival

But it's a big, it's key

You're not buying a ticket for the fact that we got Fescue out there

But because we have Fescue, we've got a grass that is more resilient

That soaks up water better and just makes your experience that much better

Without you even thinking about it

You don't have dust going into your lungs

Plus my putting game is a lot better on Fescue, I hate to say

So I think we purposely did those things in terms of CapEx improvements on our site

And we call this the capital improvements on the festival site

And they weren't from a standpoint of like, this is going to sell us more tickets

It was, this is going to help improve the overall experience

And though no one may talk about the grass, no one may even talk about the bathrooms for that matter

It's the things that we have to do from a property standpoint to remain competitive

And so we had to invest in some of that stuff

Some of it was like a desperate need

Other was because just infrastructure to the land

And just if we want to do more events on Great Stage Park

To if we do have weather and those types of things

And boy did you hit a home run putting the lights in the trees at night

Boy oh boy did that just change the entire feel

The entire feel of Bonnarooo

Yeah those are great

I tell you it gives me joy to hear you say that

That was one of those, as you can imagine, that's not a cheap decision

Oh my god, that's the first night we walked around

On Wednesday night when we got there

I looked around at Barry, we were walking through and the lights were moving

I'm like oh my god, this is so expensive

Yeah, yeah, these are, you didn't go get the $30 string over at the box store

For people who haven't seen it, they're awesome

They really do change the whole

Yeah, it's a good move

Yeah, we bought everything at a Costco that was there

By the way, I hate to tell the infaroos of the world

But that's probably the cost of a headliner

I hate to tell you, that's your headliner's lights one year

Okay, enjoy it

It's funny that you kind of said because that's some of the decision making

That we're having to ask ourselves

You spend more than that on talent

And you know, nine times out of ten, any fan wants they put it on talent

But the feeling you get, how you are transported to another world

That's one of those immeasurable things that you can't put a price on

And our feeling was if we truly feel like Bonnarooo is this other universe

When you step into it, it's this magical place

Then it has to have that feeling, it has to have that ambiance

To really catapult that

It was one of those decisions we're making and plazas are another one

In terms of how do we maintain that vibe and really look at the experience

And I think as long as we have maintained that competitive lineup

And still continue to do crazy and awesome things like the Grand Ole Opry

That in my opinion other festivals can't touch just because of where we're at

We have to continue to push ourselves with opportunities like lights

Opportunities like programming plazas and really making them a space

I mean for the longest time, I want to say for over a decade now

We have done plazas and the original start of what we call pods

Was really centered around the point of still building that community

But we recognize when you came into the grounds driving

And you're parking into your campsite, the big thing is like where am I?

What part of the farm am I on right now?

So being able to launch those balloons in the air and have one of our pod ambassadors

Or our plaza ambassadors come out to say, hey, look up, you're at plaza 9

This is where you're living the next few days

Remember this because it's going to look differently at 2 in the morning

Security, lost and found, all of this type of stuff

And so for us it was more informational and safety of why we started it

And there was always like a mini art project that we'd have going on out there

But once we started looking at RFID data and seeing when people were inside

Center room versus staying out in the campgrounds, we started to realize our missed opportunity

And where we have, where we can over deliver here or start to step it up is the campground

So before it was always that push of what else can we put in center room?

What other feature can we add that's going to get people excited?

And it was really kind of looking at that data and saying, wait a minute

Maybe we stop putting some stuff in center room and let's bring experiences to the people

Out in the campgrounds and give them an opportunity to explore their land

And really check things out. And if we do things that are fun and inviting and exciting

All throughout the plaza, now people can not only play in center room in the main venue

But they can go say, okay, what's happening at the Ville over at Plaza 7?

What's going on at House of Yes? What's happening last year with Matt Schultz

And his fun adventure out of Plaza 9? Being able to check out these things as new and different experiences

And it's something that I think that we are constantly developing

And I think now we're having even more fun with it and it's a matter

I think the biggest question we have, what comes back and what do we reinvent every year?

It almost like it becomes a new lineup to saying we want people guessing what experience is going to be at Plaza 5 this year

Last year was this, what's it going to be this year?

Right, like a random KT Elephant show out of nowhere. How about that?

Exactly. Exactly.

That's a great point about those chips on the wristbands

And being able to use that data, I didn't really think about you guys being able to fine tune it like that

What was the number you told me last year percentage wise of people who were coming for the first time versus like every year?

My marketing team would probably get mad at me if I try to quote it because I know I'm going to misquote it

I want to say we have about 50% 50 to 60% are returning Bonnaroovians

Now that can be they came last year or at some other point

So we always say once a Bonnaroovian, always a Bonnaroovian

So it could have been, you know, they came in 2002 and took some years off

So we have about 50 to 60 they're coming back every year

And then about 40 to 50 can be brand new, brand new audience that's coming in

And that number fluctuates. I mean, you know, every year is a little bit different depending upon the lineup and what's going on

That would probably be an average

I watched for the and I'm sure we're going to talk about this a lot over the next couple of months

But I watched the fire documentary on Netflix and being in the industry that I'm in, I knew exactly what was going on

I knew it while it was happening before it happened

I had a buddy of mine who works at XM radio literally sending me text message updates as he was sitting on the side of the road waiting for a car

And watching it back, I was I was just sad and felt lonely and dirty

But you know, it goes to show you that this kind of work is really, really hard

Like you said earlier, there are some festivals that do it really well

And there are some festivals that, you know, they're they're they're just a music festival and they put together a lineup

You guys have got to be pretty proud of not only the tenure that you have amassed

But to be able to really honestly say to somebody we're going to be here for the next 10, 20 some odd years

Look at what we have built. Look at the things that we have already laid a foundation for

And we've thought about every little experience that you can have going from your car to your camp back to Centauru

And we're trying to make this the best experience possible

It's just so it's a market difference from something like I'm not going to just keep beating up on fire festival

But somebody like that who thinks they can just whip up a music festival or a music festival that just sort of puts together a lineup and says

Here's some artists, give us some money. Now we'll talk to you next year

I mean, that's the difference of working with professionals that have been doing this for, you know, for for years

And it kind of specializes in and I would we all make mistakes, but I think it's kind of that understanding, you know, what you're good at

You know, no one's no one's calling me up and asking me to, you know, to to rewire their house

Why? Because it's not what I do. And having that would be, you know, having asking me to do that would be, you know, not smart

I hated kind of seeing it happen as well, because I think it's it gives our industry a bad look

Especially when you see as many festivals as we see shutting down these days

There's just there's too many going to the quote unquote graveyard that are good experiences that are ran by pretty good people, but they just can't survive in this climate

It's difficult. I mean, it really is. It's it's challenging. I think there's the fun thing

If you ever think about producing a festival, they'll light a million dollars on fire in your backyard. If that if that didn't turn you away, go let another million dollars on fire

And if you're still feeling OK about this, then then we can start talking, but we're probably going to light a couple more million

Then go open a restaurant. Yeah. Exactly. Let's hire Ja Rule. He's available.

And not just have you guys thought about every step that the Bonnaroovian takes while they're on the property being the guy who is in charge of strategic partnerships

And thinking about the revenue side of it, it's something that we'd have never actually talked about on this on this show

I've been to a lot of music festivals, man. And some of my biggest complaints are I feel like it's totally over commercialized

I feel like every time I turn around, I'm getting hit in the face with some sort of ad. I'm getting hit.

Or their hands in your pocket. Yes. Somebody's grabbing at my wallet every time I look around

The thing that I've always appreciated about Bonaru is that Bonaru never has felt too overly commercialized

Of course, we all understand you there to make a business out of this, make a profit, make some money. Why are you?

Yeah, you don't just you're not just doing it for goodwill, but you don't beat us up with trying to it doesn't ever feel like it's overly commercialized and thrown in my face

Is that something that you guys pay specific attention to? I really appreciate hearing that comment. I mean, that goes for you know, for all the festivals we produce

We believe each brand and of course Bonaru that they there's a soul. And so when we do our partnerships, it's got to match with that soul

And so, you know, obviously, he matches like, of course, that works really well. And then some are a little bit more challenging

But if the brand is willing to come in and help enhance the experience. So even if it's something you're just like, wow, that came out of left field

I didn't see how that matched in, you know, with the festival experience, but they're able to make it work. Then then I think we have an opportunity there

It's the conversations that you can't have when a brand or a partner is like, this is our vision. This is what we want to do. We can't, you know, we're not changing

Then it's like, well, then we don't have a partnership. So to have the partnership, we have to have that give and take because we have fans and an audience that is coming for a specific reason

And if you can't, if you're not a part of that reason, then we're going to have a real challenge here and it's not going to be worth it at the end of the day for either one of us

We're going to make our fans angry and you're going to be unhappy with the results. So it's taking time to build trust with both

From our fans and, you know, with the brands and the partners that we work with and that brand partnership goes more than just, you know, your simple consumer packaged goods or something along those lines

This goes with the community, this goes with government, this goes with all of the, you know, the various partners because that's how we look at it

Anybody who is working with us to produce this event, they're a potential partner. We have to approach it that way. And I think we have, sometimes it's been difficult

You know, all of us here, you know, we are a for-profit business, so we are trying to make money and sometimes we've had to say, okay, doing it this way would make us more money in the short term

But we've always felt like in the long term, that's going to cost us fans, it's going to cost us the trust that we've built and could cost us other potential partners that would see that as a deviation from who we are

And have we made mistakes over the years? Of course we have, you know, we are human. We've taken some chances on things that we thought would work and some things didn't

And then we've taken chances on things that worked beyond our wildest dreams and I think really were successful

I think one of our more recent partnerships that kind of comes to the top of my head is the one we had with LG doing the laundromat

You know, that was something that was completely different but it hit a pain point for fans, you know. You're out on the farm for several days, it's hot

You may have gotten wet, you may have gotten dusty and you know, maybe you need your clothes washed. There's that opportunity. And you've got something that works

Let me just cut straight to the chase. Do they come to you with that idea or do you guys have this idea and then you sort of try to find the right partner for it?

There are various ways these things come about. Sometimes it is from like we've got an idea for an activation or you know something

And then we'll start going to talk to brands that we've got relationships with or partners that we have relationships with

And then I'd say vice versa, we know who's out there and they're coming to us saying, hey, we'd love to get in the experiential world

And want to talk about, you know, creating custom opportunities. So it comes from both sides

And so the best relationship is when we know they want to play in the experiential space

And we get to work together in determining what their goals and objectives are, what ours are and how we can align those two to be successful in a festival environment

And that's, you know, I think that's a proof in case with the LG example. It was aligning both of those and then being able to come up with a really cool idea

It's a really good idea

That satisfies across the board

So, Jeff, I keep thinking of something that sort of ties a lot of this together. We see your relationship with Manchester and Coffee County and how that has worked

Working with the government, working with Rhodes Electric, I mean all of that

On a smaller scale though, you guys brought Moon River here to Chattanooga this past fall

And we saw a lot of that, a lot of work, excuse me, a lot of work with our government, our street, our public works

And just one of the examples that I could think of is you put the same or similar lighting into the trees over there

And the day before I happened to be there when somebody said, wouldn't it be cool if the aquarium could use the same light scheme that we're putting in the trees

And then the phone call was made and then the aquarium had the same, I think it was blue and red light colors over the weekend

Just those kind of examples is one of those things that in the grand scheme is probably not huge

It's not, you know, it's not the lineup like we said, but it's the kind of thing that just adds to the whole experience

As Brad was saying, you know, some people book a lineup, they rent a field or they get a farm and they put stages up and there's your festival

You guys go a little bit beyond that and that is the example that keeps running through my head as you were talking about

Matching those lights is a small thing, you know, at the end of the day, but it was a big thing because it was so cool

You're right and it goes back to, I love to state that part of our role as a festival is to provide a positive lasting experience in the community that we're doing business

Knowing that, you know, we have the ability to make that positive impact and have it reverberate for years to come

So whether it's, you know, a one year one off festival or, you know, it's a place that we're trying to build, you know, an annual event

Laying that groundwork and working with the community from, you know, as high level as the governor all the way down to local residents is critical

And understanding and hearing what pain points they may have, but when we're able to do awesome things like the, you know, like your example there

I think it helps to align that community investment

So even though we're not doing something directly with the aquarium, it's the aquarium's recognition of there's something successful going on there

We're now kind of invested in it and it's a better thing for our community, you know, there's going to be tax revenue

There's going to be heads in bed, there's going to be all of those things, people that are coming to Chattanooga that have never been to Chattanooga before

And now may say, hey, maybe I should move here, maybe I should open a business here

And, you know, we kind of circling back even Manchester, I want to say that off the top of my head, I know at least of three businesses that have opened up in Manchester

Because of the festival industry and the music of what we created there that never would have been there beforehand

So it's that company relocating, having jobs for people and giving back to the local economy

You know, producing festivals provides that, I mean, you know, that's even stepping away from like the economic impact, the heads in beds, you know, the local restaurants

And I mean, even, you know, the package stores like Walmart and Home Depot that are, you know, receiving impact from sales and things along those lines

It's all a part of it and I think there is a sense of community pride when they see a successful event happen

Even if it has, even if it disrupts their daily life when it comes to traffic or whatever it may be

They recognize the fact of, wow, this is a good thing for my community and because I want to see my community grow and prosper

And maybe I don't want taxes to go up, I want things like this to happen

I mean, look at the Bonnarooo Works Fund, I mean, look at the things you guys have created with that in Manchester

Manchester's quite happy that you guys are there, you guys do a lot for that community

We've got a great partnership with Manchester, Coffee County and the entire state, you know, for that matter

It's been, it's an absolute pleasure working with, like I said, everyone from the governor's office down to our local residents

Man, Jeff, we can't say how much we appreciate you sticking with us this long

It's been a phenomenal chat, I just have a couple of odds and ends to wrap us up

Go for it

These are really easy, quick ones

The line-up came out day by day this year

Yes

There's got to be a specific reason why

For us, I think, how are we able to tell the story in terms of what our line-up looked like

And, you know, we've had the same challenges I think everyone else had

It's like, you've got your larger font, your top lines, and then kind of everything else below it

And it's, before it's been a challenge of being able to do something like the day, being able to show who's playing what day

Just because some of those pieces are still moving around

And we've been fortunate enough that, you know, as festivals are, you know, the landscape has changed

A lot of this stuff is more, you know, I would say hammered out before we even got to the point of line-up

So we actually have the opportunity to do it this year

But this actually came from our designers and our marketing team saying, hey, let's take a look at it like this

We've seen this before, and we think it's a more powerful story

And then once they laid it out, it was like, oh my God, this is how we have to

We know that people are going to ask about this

And I think part of our, from a marketing standpoint, we've said, you've got your line-up

And then we've made a tentpole moment out of telling people what day artists are playing on

And then another tentpole moment of, you know, the exact schedule

And so part of our thought process was, you know, let's get this information out sooner

I think it'll help in the decision-making process

And then, you know, specifically how we had, you know, Phish coming across multiple data, doing multiple sets

It helps tell a story in a different way

Well, I'm glad you brought up Phish because that's my second odds and end

Explain the difference between Phish's set from 2009 to what they're expected to do this year

Because the wording is different, and I've been having these arguments with people

That something about this year's specific Phish doing two different days seems different than what was put on in 2009

Am I wrong about that?

I'll say in true Phish fashion, expect your mind to be blown

I mean, these guys are amazing, talented artists

That does not win me an argument, Jeff

That does not do anything for me winning an argument

The reason I ask

I can't tell you all the secrets

Okay, well, the reason I ask is because the way that 2009 was set up is they did a late night set on Friday

Up until like 3 o'clock in the morning

And then they did two sets on Sunday night

So the way that it was set in 2009, the wording was, insert thing here, but in this lineup, Sunday says two sets

When it was never billed as two sets in 2009, even though they played two sets

Yeah, you see what I have to put up with, Jeff

I know I'm getting the weeds here, but I'm wondering if there's a specific reason why the language is different this year than it was in 2009

I mean, specifically on the two set side, I think that means something to Phish fans

So, I mean, you go back and kind of say what that entails

They know, as Phish fans, I think if it were to be one set, it would mean something different than two sets

Okay, then the Friday foot

My thought was Friday may be a Phish sort of super jam

Friday may be one of those moments where they start bringing a bunch of people on stage

I bet one of them will be

You'll have to come to see

Well, you don't have to worry about that

And then the final question for you, Final Odds and Ends

Any picks for your weekend other than the stuff that we know?

Is there anything that jumped out at you in the lineup?

I mean, there's one big one

I'm really excited to see what we're going to do with the Grand Ole Opry this year

Me too, I really like that

I thought that was a stroke of genius, by the way, putting that on Thursday

Yeah, I think that's going to be a great setup

And having it on Thursday is a special place for them to be

I have not seen Saba live, so to see that one, I'm kind of excited about

I'm a huge Childish Gambino fan

I went and saw him in Atlanta when he opened up for his tour

And I think he quoted, you know, saying, get ready because I'm taking you guys to church

And it was just a spectacular show

And I've seen him a couple of times at the farm

And now to have him back on the main stage

That's probably the show I'm most excited to see

Girl Talk, I mean, I can't remember the last time Girl Talk played

But every time, it is a party

And I look forward to those types of parties, even the older that I get

Lonely Island, you know, really excited about that one

Jim James, always been a huge Jacket fan and just what Jim is doing

Maren Morris, what she's doing right now is fantastic

Oh man, her new single is great

Yeah, Toki Amata, excited about that one

This is a good list, this is a good group

The Hobo Johnson and the Love Makers, that's one of those that's kind of caught on quickly

I'm intrigued by it, it's just, it's not something I'm kind of used to

So I'm more or less really intrigued

And then I think probably my last one that really caught me is Princess

I really like that play

With Fire Rudolph

I think Princess is a really fun pull

Really out of their box, I think

Finally, to your point about Chávez Gambino

What I love about Bonnarooo and what we've talked about a lot

Is how they take artists that they really believe in

And no matter where they are in their career

They sort of put them under their wing

And then they carry them for as long as they need to

Chávez Gambino, I don't care what anybody says

Chávez Gambino is a Bonnarooo artist

He can go to any festival he wants to, but he's Bonnarooo's

I love that, thank you

I remember seeing him in the tent the first year

And it was funny, like I had listened to him before

But I had for some reason no idea it was Donald Glover

And I walked into the tent, I'm like, what's Donald Glover doing on stage?

And I'm like, that's Chávez?

It just kind of connected for me at that point in time

And after that, I was even more of a super fan than I already am

Hey Jeff, I thought we would spend a lot of time talking about the experiences

And this has been so interesting, we haven't really

Wonder if maybe as it gets closer to festival

We might have you back on and we can talk about some of

Not just what's going to happen, but how people might look at experiencing it and all that

I'd love to, yeah, there's some good stuff that

We're kind of in the process of kind of dotting our I's and crossing our T's to get it nailed down

That's going to be exciting, even from the details surrounding the veil coming back this year

There's just some really creative things happening

I'm probably, I don't want to say more giddy about that

But some of the ideas that are currently happening and if they come to fruition this year

Are going to be awesome

I would love to dive deeper into them as we get closer

Mainly because me and Barry for the first time in probably 12, 13 years

Went out to GA and GA camping and experienced what you guys were selling

And we loved it, absolutely loved it

It was to be avoided at all costs prior

Oh my god, now I got back to the camp one night and I was like

I sort of just want to go back out to GA

I was like, why am I back here with you losers?

But yeah, it's a really, really well done thing and once you guys have it all set and ready to go

Well I'd love to deep dive into that again

Let's do it

Jeff, we'll talk soon, thank you so much for your time

Yeah, my pleasure

A lot of fun, thanks Jeff

Alright there you go, Jeff from AC Entertainment

Could not have been nicer and more courteous with his time

Endless amount of gratitude for him spending as much time as he did with us today

Yeah, that was terrific

I've gotten to know Jeff over the years because he's sort of the media go-to person on site anyway

And another person that I talk to for my job with the paper

But what he gave us today with this is, like you said, absolutely tremendous

And very entertaining and I think he had a lot of fun as well which makes it even better

They don't always have fun with us

No, not everybody has fun with us

We make it hard on people

Very difficult

Hey, we'd love to get your feedback, thewhatpodcast.com or thewhat-podcast on Twitter

Of course, it's the same place you can enter for tickets to Bonnaroo

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All you gotta do is comment on our website, thewhatpodcast.com

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And hopefully we'll see you again next week on The What

See you then

Thanks guys