The What Podcast
Moon River with Drew Holcomb and AC Entertainment
Season 3, Episode 6
Published February 18, 2020
https://beta.thewhatpodcast.com/episode/moon-river-with-drew-holcomb-and-ac-entertainment

New Tame Impala is out this week on the what podcast? A podcast for Bonnaroovians by Bonnaroovians

Bonnaroovian A, Brad Steiner, Bonnaroovian B, Barry Courter, how are you?

I'm good, how are you?

You have Bonnaroovian B and C, Barry Courter, I like that

I know, B and B

So, have you listened to spending time with the Tame Impala?

I have not, I was listening to a lot of other ones

Like what?

Oh god, here we go

It's the same Bahamas track over and over and it's going to be bass nectar

Move on, but there is other big ones

What did you, I want to know what you were listening to, what was it?

Lizard, Mr. Oyster Head

I can't stop listening, I can't decide if I love it or hate it

Burning one down this morning, huh?

Apparently, apparently got up early and got going

Yeah, okay, what is early for you?

High-fertilizer

Wow, god, Jesus

It's coming to you, man

Embrace it, embrace it

So, Tame Impala came out this week, one of your Bonnaroovian Headliners

And what other news do you have?

Big news from AC

Oh yeah, do you really consider that news though?

It's official, you and I have known for months

I thought that the writing was on the wall for a long time

Yeah, I mean it's

Everything that I'm hearing out of Knoxville

And I have no reason to doubt those folks is that nothing changes

Alright, so let's walk through it

For a while, AC Entertainment was acquired by Live Nation

What was it, a 49.51 or what was the overall thing when it super started?

In 2016, they got controlling interest

And we all, hair was on fire, remember?

We all were convinced it was the end of the world

Yeah

And they spent that money, by the way, they used the Live Nation to basically rejuvenate

And rebuild the site

Pumped a bunch of money into the site with the bathrooms and the roads and the electricity

Yeah

And all of that

And arguably we all sort of thought, God, maybe if you remember that was the year the lineup wasn't so great

And we wanted to blame them

I don't know, we weren't in that room

But we had been hearing that Ashley Capps is going to retire

And that Ted Heinegg was going to take his place

And that became official this week

They all say, and again, I have no reason to doubt anything they're saying, that nothing changes

Okay, well, let's go through a couple of things

They said that the first time when Live Nation came in and sort of put their mark on it

And they, I'm going to guess, now I have no information here

But I'm going to guess they allowed a lot of Live Nation people in the room

Live Nation then got C3 involved

And the lineup became a little bit out of AC's hands

And one thing leads to another, it doesn't necessarily go very well

And then the rumor was that AC sort of took back the reins of the lineup last year

Even with the idea under the guise that nothing really has changed with the Live Nation-AC partnership

Somewhere along the lines there, C3 sort of steps away in formal capacity

They still get some sort of partnership

Obviously you heard Bobby and I can't remember her name by the way

Sophie

Sophie last week

But now that AC is back in the lineup thing

I got to imagine until it starts to fail and until they start to not sell tickets

Live Nation is going to continue to let AC do what AC does

I'll offer you proof

They let you and me in the room with now President Ted Heining, Brian and Steve

The two guys who booked the lineup

Yeah

I mean

You don't think Live Nation lets us in?

I don't know

I'm just saying what more do we need, you know?

Those are the guys that made it happen

Look, I think that we've been through this once

And it made us all crazy and we're still alive

I think the Republic will stand

I think we're going to be OK

What is the lesson? Is it that we get our hair on fire because rumors or just sort of trust or I don't know

I don't know

I think it's a bigger cultural thing

I don't think it's just Bonnarooo

I think that when people hear big giant corporation coming in

They really freak out about anything

And there are certain people that absolutely despise Live Nation and everything it stands for

They're not the easiest on our side

They're not the easiest when I say our side, I mean radio

They're not the easiest to deal with in some ways

And then there are other people in Live Nation that are phenomenal and I love

But that's every major industry

Every major industry that is as big as Live Nation has these horror stories

But they also have major major success stories

And you know, Live Nation is no different

It's a simple fact

As long as things are going well, leave it alone

And things are going well

I don't know if Mitt Romney is coming in to run the festival

I know it seems like big corporation, lots of money coming in

I mean it's only helped the festival since it's been around

And I just don't, I know Live Nation, there's some festivals that Live Nation puts on

That just seem void of a spirit and a soul

But you know, there's a lot of music festivals Live Nation doesn't run

That's void of a soul and a spirit

Exactly, exactly

And the other news that we've gotten this week

According to what Festival is

That the tickets are, it's going to be a sellout soon probably

One of the earliest, one of the top two earliest in its history, 19 year history

Okay, now aside from the general public that buys tickets

And then when you go to buy a ticket that's not there, does anyone care?

I care because I want room

I know, but we talk about the amount of people there every year

And then 2016, you know, the crowds not being there

But does anyone really care about crowd size?

Well, it's a good question

Or how many tickets are sold?

We're going to talk to Drew Holcomb here in a minute about Moon River

And to your point, they might have hurt themselves

Once they left Memphis and moved to Chattanooga

They sold out in eight hours the first year

Sold out within 24 hours the second year

I don't know if they've sold out yet or not

And for some reason it feels like, ooh, what's wrong?

You know what I mean?

We're recording this, what, three days after

So, you know, lots of festivals don't sell out in three days

No, I'm kidding

You know what I mean?

Three days after, what we're talking about is Moon River

Moon River is a boutique festival

If you've listened to any of the seasons past

We've talked the differences between the levels of festivals

Moon River is a boutique festival on the bank there

Of the Tennessee River in Chattanooga in Coolidge Park

And it's sort of become our baby in Chattanooga

Also run by AC Entertainment

Yeah, it all started by Drew Holcomb

And Drew was nice enough last season to come on

And sort of give us a behind the scenes sort of tour

Of how you build a boutique festival

The differences between a major operation and the Moon Rivers

Then another layer under that

Which is just some guys wanting to start their own festival

So today we're going to talk to Drew

We got a chance to catch up with him at Songbirds

Which is this amazing guitar museum in Chattanooga

I mean, I don't know what the official number is

But it's like, I don't know, $50 million in guitars or something stupid

$200 million

Oh, that's all

$200 million in guitars

$1,700 million worth insured for $200 million

It's the largest rare unique collection in the world

It's a place that if you like music

Or if you are an artist yourself

Or any band that's ever come through

They walk in and they're just like, what is happening here?

It's a very unique spot

So the people at Songbirds were nice enough to let us come by

And talk to Drew back in their little private area

And then we also got to talk to a Patreon today

While we were sitting on stage at Songbirds

Like we were a show

People walking by through the museum

Just like these two idiots on stage

We need to really sometimes step back and realize how lucky we are

Oh, I thought you were going to say how stupid we look

No, I mean, we do

It's amazing when we say this

Yeah, we got to walk in there like we own the place

Yeah

Because we kind of do

Oh yeah, just pick up any guitar you want to

Well, I haven't done that because I'm afraid I would break it

I mean, it's one of these places that's got like the original Fender Stratocaster

In a case that is, I mean, there's like 19 or they've got one of 19

It's unbelievable

Yeah, they've got a series that is 001, 002, 004

That's the level that they have

It's not the stuff that Elvis used to play

That's not what they collected

They collected the historic stuff

So to be able to sit in there with Drew is unbelievable

But I guess trying to put a bow on all this, it all fits

And that's why we did it

Talking about, you asked the question

Does it matter if it sells out or not?

To some people, I guess

Well, yeah, the people that build the thing, they care

It matters a lot to Drew for his festival, it matters a lot

To you and I, it's fodder to talk about

Yeah, I know

It's panic thinking that if it doesn't sell out, Live Nation takes over again

That's what everybody's testifier

So we've got, first off, we'll talk to Drew here in a second

Drew and Brad, by the way

Brad's a guy from AC Entertainment from Knoxville

So we'll talk to him as well about the Moon River lineup and festivals in general

But first, we got a chance to catch up with one of our major Patreons, Aaron

And talk about his Bonnarooo experiences on the podcast live from Songbirds in Chattanooga, Tennessee

Aaron, where are you calling from today? Where are you?

I'm sunny Orlando, Florida

No kidding, Orlando, Florida

I guess you drive in? Do you drive into the festival?

In the past I have, this year I'm actually flying into Nashville and then driving in from there

Who has your gear? Do you travel with the gear?

In the past I have, I've come up with a tent in the past

Last year I actually ended up renting out a cargo van and just turned that into my little tour-mate RV

I've always thought, why hasn't somebody just rented a U-Haul for the weekend and driven a U-Haul in?

I saw some guys do that for a football game

They put couches in it, keg of beer, all their food, it's a great idea

Now we've never actually asked the Bonnarooo people if you can do this

But I don't see a reason why you can't just drive a U-Haul in, why?

I actually think it says now on the site you can't do that

Oh stop it

I think so, I saw it somewhere, it might have been a football field

You can't drive, it can't be like a box truck, but you can bring in, you could have a rental cargo van from U-Haul or

So that's okay, that's okay, but a box truck, not okay

There's a certain length it can't be, as long as it's under there

But this year I'm actually renting one of those tents that's just waiting for you when you show up

Yeah, that's a good deal

See this is what I love, we're getting all the different ways to do this

This is great

But here's why I find this U-Haul thing to be so funny is that if they've had to put it into the rules and regulations

That means someone has done it

Somebody's abused it

Somebody has actually tried it and we missed it

Somebody's abused it too, they've, no telling what they brought in

That's funny

How many years, you probably have said already

Yeah, this year will be number seven

Wow, there you go

Well, 2012 through 2015 and then 2018, 2019, this year will be number seven

Why'd you take the years off?

It was 2016, I did like some of the line up, it wasn't necessarily as deep as I would have liked it to have been

But there were still, especially towards the top, there were some acts that I really liked

But I just made the call not to come

And then 2017, there wasn't enough there for me

2018 I actually came because I had my girlfriend who I'm going, this will be our third year in a row together

She really wanted to go and she had never been

I was like, yeah, absolutely, I'll go back

It's fun seeing it through someone else's eyes for their first time

And we both loved it

You guys share musical tastes?

Do you guys listen to some things?

Yes and no, we're both pretty wide in our interests

She leads a little bit more towards the countryside

Whereas I lead more towards the indie or alternative rock and the rock side

But she's introduced me to a lot of stuff and I've done the same for her

The reason I ask is I always think it's very interesting if you take a newbie, if you take a Bonnarooo Virgin

Because they're going to be tied at your hip

So you guys better share some common interests or else you're going to be miserable

That's why I said to somebody else, I think that it's really imperative that you go without a mate

Don't go with somebody you're dating

Unless you're in total agreement and you really want to be around this person every second of the day

Or go your separate ways and be fine with that

Yeah and that's something we've always said to each other

Because it's just the two of us that go

It's that at any time if there's an act I really want to see, I'm going to go see it

If there's an act she really wants to see, she'll go see it

And we've always been pretty fine with that

We're okay being apart for an hour or two, it's alright

Teach me your ways Aaron, teach me your ways

But yeah, for the most part though

The first year she was pretty much just relying on me to show her around

To show her all the acts

I do a lot more research on the line up than she necessarily does

So I dig into a lot more of the acts that I'm not familiar with

Where she relies on me to do the homework for her

So she's my friend somewhat

You're the first person I think we've had in a long long time that said the line up was a big big part of your decision making, right?

Especially for a vet, sure

Yeah, most people are, they like the environment or whatever

And the line up is secondary

Yeah, the line up, it is a big part of it

I will say, I do a fair amount of festivals each year

I'll do usually like three or four festivals a year that we go to

And for any other festival, the line up, it has to be good enough for us to go

Whereas Bonnarooo, we knew we were going to go this year before the line up came out

So to your point, the line up in general it is important for me for most festivals

But for Bonnarooo, we know that we're going to have a good time even if we're not seeing all of the acts

I think it's definitely maybe like a location thing

I mean for us, it doesn't matter what the line up is

I mean, we're, it feels like 20 minutes away

But for somebody like Aaron who's got to come from Orlando or Elisle that we talked to the other day

Who has to come from Seattle, yeah the line up probably really really matters

What are the other festivals that you go to every year?

So I've done, the last four years, I've gone to Coachella out in California

So that's even further for me, so like that one it's, I love it there, the grounds

But there the line up is a little bit more important for me

I've done ACL in Austin, Texas

And then last year I did a couple of the smaller Las Vegas festivals, Life is Beautiful

And then a new one that Amazon put out called Intersect Festival

What do you think the main differences between Coachella and Bonnarooo are since you've been to both?

I always say, you know, because they get compared to each other a lot

And you know I say they're both great but they're two very different experiences

Coachella is, it's so hard to compare the two because they're similar yet so different from each other

I'll say Bonnarooo is very much an experience, you know you're going for just the whole thing

From the plazas to the music and then a big part of it, you know, and it's cliché you hear people talk about it

But just like the overall community and the vibe of it, you know, that truly is a thing with Bonnarooo

With Coachella there's still like a community to it but it's a little bit, it's more, I don't know how to word it

You know, the way that it does not make it sound like Coachella is not a good time but it's just, it's...

You definitely can feel the difference though

Oh yeah, absolutely. The atmosphere is a lot different

I don't want to say people don't go there for the music because a lot of people do go to Coachella for the music

But you know, I get the feeling there that there are people that are there just to say that they're there

I think we've heard that a couple of times, it's what you're wearing and the way you look and all that

Whereas Bonnarooo, you're wearing comfort

There's going to be a difference in your experience if at the end of the day you get to get into a pool

Yeah

At the end of the day when you go back to your house in Santa Barbara and get to, you know, swim in a pool for the main of the night

I think things are a little different on how you experience a festival

The line up thing for you, is it the full breadth that matters or if there are a couple of people that are your favorites or is it the whole...

The whole...

Oh I'm sorry, you're saying like, is it like one specific act or...

Yeah, is it two or three, the tap headliners or is it the bottom card or is it the full line up thing or you know...

Specifically this year's Bonnarooo line up?

No, when you decided not to go

Yeah, in 2016 the headliners are really like, you know, I'm LCD sound system, you know, I was thrilled I ended up seeing them a couple times that year at other festivals

And Pearl Jam I've never seen but I would have liked to have seen them at the Dead, you know, I would have liked to see them

There were acts that I would have liked to have seen but it just didn't pull me in as much as I wanted

In 2017, I just, I'm trying to remember, yeah, that one just, it was more line up driven but 2018 really what brought me back was just like my girlfriend really wanted to go

If I can, 2017 was a year we were that close to not going right because of the line up

And that's when we started this, but we were weak of, and again we're, you know, just down the road to the decision

But yeah, we were whining and complaining

It took a little convincing for her to go that year

It ended up being a great year

It was my favorite year

We were literally the week before, you know, so and so is not going, so and so, I don't know if I want to go, that kind of thing because of the line up

What was the girlfriend's first impressions of Bonnarooo when she first went?

You know, you try to prepare them but you can't really prepare anyone for something like, you know, to the scale of Bonnarooo

And we had tried to think that was her first major festival, you know, we've done some, you know, the other festivals we went to for that

So that was her first legit festival

And it was overwhelming at first for her because it's just, what is it, 800 acres or something like that, it's just massive

And but she, you know, she ended up loving it, you know, she really appreciated just, you know, for her she has a music background

And she went to school in Nashville

So she really appreciated it from just the operations standpoint and how it's all put together and, you know, just the overall, you know, community

She loved the whole vibe of it

I don't think I've ever told the story of it

I took my brother to Bonnarooo, he'd never been to Bonnarooo before

He's a musician, so I mean, he doesn't get wowed by a lot, but I don't know if he's ever done a major, major festival outside of like, you know, Music Midtown

Because he lives in Atlanta

So he comes to Bonnarooo for the first time and it was the second Kanye year, right?

And so he gets in late because the kid can't do anything right

So he gets in way, way late

It takes him seven hours to get here from Atlanta

I finally get him in, so where we camp is right behind the witch stage

And so we bring him in, I shuttle him in

And then we immediately have to run to the media area to get into the line to get escorted into the pit, right?

So in the media area, certain shows, they'll escort you in as a group and drop you right in the pit no matter if it's closed or not

So we go from backstage of the witch

We walk from backstage witch to literally through the artist compound behind the what stage where all of the trailers and everything is

This is his first step into Bonnarooo

And he gets wheeled to the front row of a Kanye West show and then three, two, one, Kanye

That was his introduction to Bonnarooo

That's how it is for everybody

That was his first step into Bonnarooo into a major music festival

And he's like, what in the world am I doing? How did this happen?

It makes me think, my wife's first and only time, she came up just for the Springsteen night

And came late and had to wait for the van to bring her in

Because they don't bring, only artists can be in the van

So even if it's one person, she couldn't ride with them

So she had to wait for that and then she comes trudging all this stuff

And walks to the camping, which was on the other side of the road at that time

And the first thing she sees is a naked woman come running out of her car and squat down to pee

In the middle of the lane

Welcome to Bonnarooo

And I was like, welcome to Bonnarooo

She got a lady peeing, my brother got Kanye

Shortly you'll see it all, one way or the other

That's right, it's all a part of the story

A shortage of people watching at Bonnarooo, that's for sure

So about this lineup, obviously you're growing, which means you're excited about it

So what are the ones you're looking forward to?

Boy, there's, you know, looking at the lineup, there's a lot that, you know, you initially look at it

And there's a lot that jumps out that you're interested in

And then it's just, you know, there's so many, you know, personally, Tame Impala

I'm really looking forward to them, especially with, you know, that stage production

On the What Stage is going to look and sound just incredible

You know, with the singles that, you know, they've been releasing, it's looking like the album

I'm really looking forward to the new album and hearing those songs live

It's the Vampire Weekend, very much enjoy them

I said this the other day, it's almost like you forgot Vampire Weekend was on the lineup

You said that about me, there's so many you forgot

I said that about Lana Del Rey, I constantly, no matter how many times I look at the lineup, I misrun the jewels

I mean, I've totally forgotten until you just said Vampire Weekend was on the lineup

This is how deep this thing is

Yeah, I'm really looking forward to it

I was just going to say I can't wait to get into camp and see how the discussions and the who's going where

And where are we going, and the angst and the oh my god

I'm stressed out about Friday, I'm totally stressed out about Friday

I mean, we're how many months away and I still can't wrap my head around what in the world my Friday looks like

And how beat to death I will be come Saturday morning

I know, it's going to be, the decision is going to be go to one and stay or do a bunch of walk-bys

I just don't do walk-bys, we've talked about this on the show

I'm a first song to last song guy, I like the whole show and I like to go through the whole ebb and flow of it

I just don't do walk-bys very often and I'm not good at them

But by the way, once I get there I'm ready to get the hell out

You know, that's not a walk-by, that is literally just a walk

That's me, oh I can't stand, I don't want to stand here or I'm missing something

I know, I'm missing something, yeah, it's the FOMO part of me

I'd rather just not be there than walk up and stand there for five minutes

I feel like I've missed the whole thing

I know, and you're convinced something better is going on over there

Yeah, that's the hard part

You were going to say Aaron?

Oh, I'm trying to remember, I think I'm really looking forward to the

It was mentioned a couple weeks ago on your, I forget who you're talking with

But King Gizzard and the Lizard, King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard late night

Very curious to see what kind of show that ends up being

Because I've seen them twice before at festivals early in the afternoon

I think I saw them in 2015, the other was still The Tent

And I think that's going to be a very energetic and fun late night set

What did you think about it?

When I saw them in the past, I loved it

I saw them, like I said, 2015 and then I saw them in I think 2018 at Coachella

But both times they played early in the afternoon

See that's fascinating, King Gizzard is one of these that, I mean look, it's gone right past me

And I don't know if it does it any justice listening to it on Spotify

Because I don't get it on Spotify

It's got to be one of these live shows that you just have to see to appreciate

I'm guessing, I'm guessing

You're talking about, it's months away and I wanted to mention the RooHamm cast guys

I don't know if you listen to their podcast

But I was listening to this morning and they did one on the whole Thursday lineup

This kind of went through and it really kind of got me all fired up

You know, I'm ready to go and that's just Thursday

Shout out to those guys too, they got a pretty good little podcast

What do they say about Thursday? Because I haven't spent much time on Thursday

They're in total agreement with us that it's becoming one of their favorite days

I don't even care who's on the lineup

I know Larkin Poe and the Grand Ole Opry and I think there's one other

Regrets

Oh yeah, regrets, yeah

But other than that I don't really know anybody on Thursday and frankly it's fine

I've got 17 artists I want to see on Friday

I don't really give a damn what happens on Thursday to be honest with you

It was just that excitement of getting there, getting there, getting there and then hurry up and wait

Yeah, what day? What day?

What day are you getting in Aaron?

So I'm not able to come in until Thursday morning

We do the VIPs, allowed to come until Thursday

Which I honestly, if we could come in Wednesday we would

But unfortunately we can't come in on Thursday

My first Bonnarooo I did general admission

And that first Wednesday night you come in and you get your tent set up

It's brilliant, it's brilliant

And here's the thing, here's the thing that I love about

And we just started doing Wednesday by the way

And the reason I like Wednesday so much is because of that very reason

The campground feels like it's just yours, you know?

And you can settle down and you can relax and you don't have to worry about anything

It's gotten so like, I love Wednesday so much

That now we want it to be Tuesday

Legitimately last year, like you know what?

We could probably figure out a way to get in on Tuesday night, don't you think?

Yeah, no, you're right and it makes Tuesday and Wednesday great

But it makes Monday awful

The following Monday

It's a long stretch

Monday is just the saddest, saddest day of the world

It's sad, I went two years, second year we did that I guess

I got home on Monday, hung my tent to dry, put all my stuff away, opened a beer

And I do not remember anything until Thursday

And it wasn't because I was on drugs or whatever

I was putting milk in the cabinets and cereal in the fridge

I was fried

But I wanted to ask, because you've done it so many different ways

Can you compare, sort of compare and contrast general admission versus all the others?

Because you're one of the few I think that we've talked to that

Liesl's done some of the tent camping

That's always interesting to me, somebody who's actually experienced the different levels

Yeah, so with this being the seventh year I've done general admission in a tent once

I guess four years in a tent in VIP

And then the one year in a van, the next year will be in one of the tents that's like waiting for you when you show up

General admission was, you know, I lucked out because I think I waited about an hour in line and traffic

Because I heard some of the horror stories about people waiting in line and fortunately avoided that

And had a campsite pretty close to the entrance to Centauru

VIP, you know, I've done it every year since and that, for me the perks are just fantastic

It's the only festival that I do the VIP for because I feel the perks are great

Between the quicker access into the grounds to the lounges

And the little bit bigger site, your campsite, which is nice

Well now they moved the hill, the VIP hill, I mean things are so much better out there

Just being 20 feet closer to the stage

Makes such a difference

They've moved the damn hill

That's how committed they are to this thing

They moved the hill, okay, they moved the hill, I know for a fact, I'm just convinced at this point

They either moved the hill or they moved the stage in closer, I don't know

I'm sure we have people who have not listened to every podcast

So I'm going to bring everybody up to speed real quick

So two times I've introduced Brad to Ashley Capps

One was in Four Castle in the Bourbon tent and you thanked him for saving music

And then the other were standing in front of the What Stage on Wednesday during the media thing

So there's ten people around

Brad looks over and he says, why'd you move the hill?

And Ashley looks at him like, what?

And then the whole Einstein walks up and you say it again, why'd you move the hill?

They look at each other, then they look at me like, have you brought somebody who's not quite all right?

Indoor? And I'm looking at him like, no, please no

Not in front of these guys, I've all seen

Okay, first off it was totally empty, right?

So you got to see the grounds, totally empty

And when you stand at the stage turned around and look back at the grounds

The hill looks damn near a hundred feet closer than I remember it

Now I've been on the VIP hill, I've seen a show on the VIP hill

It was miles away, it was miles away that year

Like I can't even express to you how much of a gap there was between the VIP hill and the stage

Standing there in front of the stage, you look back on it, I could have thrown a baseball at it

It was that close

Ashley Capps and Ken Weinstein

I was mortified

I'm telling you, I'm starting a movement, they moved the hill

Underestimate the powers of Ashley Capps

Yeah, or self-medication

Not that hard to create a hill, okay?

You just dig up some dirt and place it there, put some grass, you're done

I wish I could have taken a picture of Ashley's face

Probably matched mine

Okay, so your girlfriend's going this year?

Yeah

Is she bought in now, is she doing the spreadsheets and is she a psycho as the three of us are about it?

Nah, she pretty much relies on me to do a lot of the work

She's very excited, this is her favorite lineup of the three Bonnarooo's that we'll have gone to

She's really excited about a lot of the acts

Even more so than last year, being a country fan

Yeah, she was very excited about Kacey Musgraves

Brandy Carlisle

The one that's in the high women, that's about to have a baby

Yeah, Maren Morris

They think it's right

This year, I thought she would prefer last year's over this year's

But right when the lineup came out, she said, I like this one a lot more

Well, if she hasn't already, Yola, I'm screaming about Yola

She likes country and soul and a little bit of R&B, it's all in one package of Yola

I'm absolutely in love with it

How about this now, because we were talking about it last time

And I think Brad, I'd like to explore it maybe a little bit longer in another podcast

But the idea of how Bonnarooo in particular has sort of changed all of our psyches into wanting to be discoverers

You know what I mean? That's what we talked about

Yeah, I think that there's also a part of it

I don't want, and I think that I got this maybe a little bit from the Reddit people

But mostly from Brian and Steve when they said, this is what they do for a living

This is their job, we need to know everyone

And so it almost makes me feel like if they put somebody on the Bonnarooo lineup that I don't know, I feel like I've failed

So now I need to know all of them too

So I want to know anybody they put on the lineup so that I don't feel out of the loop

I think I felt that way before, several years ago

And now it's, oh I get to discover

I mean it's like discovering a new restaurant to me, you know

I want to discover something

Yeah, I think that's where I was originally

But now I'm starting to rethink it

Like I see all these names on Thursday or whatever day

And I'm like, why did I not know them?

Why am I having to be introduced to things?

That's disjewed

I know, I know

That's disjewed

It's changing a little bit

How about your girlfriend Erin?

She caught in, you said she likes country, is she now into that mode yet?

Because I really do think that's a phenomena from this festival

And I'm sure others, but in Spotify and Pandora and all that

You're not going to hang out festival to discover artists

Yeah, maybe not

You're not, I mean Forecastle might be cool

And I like Forecastle, but I'm not going there to discover things that are outside of my comfort zone

And that definitely is a lineup driven one for me

But how about her? She bought into the...

Yeah, well I feel like I listen to a lot of music

But you know, kind of like we were saying, every year the lineup comes out

And I'm thinking, I didn't listen to a lot of music

Because there's always so many acts that I'm like, well, let's do some homework

Which I mean, I love lineup

The lineup release date is, it's like, alright, here's a bunch of bands I'm about to learn about

And so for me, I kind of, what I end up doing is

As I listen to acts, I'll create little Spotify playlists that I send her

Just to kind of give her a little bit of a best of

Because I'm listening to the whole lineup

And I'm trying to pinpoint certain things for her

And I feel like it ends up working out well once we get to the...

I love this thing that you say

And we've heard other people that we've talked to say the same thing

They're curating... The lineup has been curated for you by Bonnarooo

You're curating a lineup for your friends and family

And girlfriends and significant others

For you to enjoy, that's kind of fun

Like if I could curate a lineup for Barry, I mean, his back would give out

I'm going to take him to some things that...

It's probably going to anyway

I'm actually... Yeah, the training has started

I said this last year, I was like, man, I'm really going to have to get in shape for Bonnarooo

And everyone laughed at me

But I feel like you've got to work out

You've got to do some exercises for the months leading up for it

So that you don't... Literally not broken by Saturday morning

Yeah, I've heard a lot of people on other podcasts and Reddit and all that

What do I need to do? Start exercising, start hydrating

All of that stuff

Yeah, get in about 35,000 steps a day

Yeah, we joke about it, but we live here, but people coming from the North

I can't imagine what coming into the Tennessee humidity in June is like to the unwares

Yeah

It's totally miserable

But luckily we've gotten really, really, really lucky the last few years with weather

And that's the weirdest thing I've heard people talking about

Be prepared for the cold at night

Man, the first 10 years I went...

I don't remember it being cold

It was never cold

I never remember... It's been freezing the last few years

I don't know what's going on

I wore three pair of pants last year on Thursday night

It was freezing

I wore my pajama pants out into center-roof, if you remember

You're wearing them now

I can't... That's just what happened for you

I didn't care

Really? People in rabbit costumes over there make fun of my pajamas

I just don't see how pajama pants are warm

They were Dr. Denton's with the back... No, they weren't

Anyway

Lovely image

Man, Aaron, thanks so much for listening and chatting with us today

We can't thank you enough for supporting the podcast, liking it, listening

We never anticipated having a friend group expand like this via Bonnarooo

Anything we didn't ask you?

Anything you were hoping to say that we didn't ask about?

We didn't ask you guys

No, I mean, I very much appreciate listening to you guys every week

Did you want to say anything about my hair?

Yeah, what's your favorite part about me?

That's beautiful

I always ask people

How does it look on Monday morning after a week in a Bonnarooo?

Does it still look like that or...?

It is on fleek all the time

Nothing else does, but that does

Yeah, nothing else works on me, but this thing is very consistent

Yeah, wonderful

Alright, man, thank you so much

Absolutely, gotcha

Talk to you soon, see you on the farm

Alright

Aaron from... Where was he from? Dallas? Where was he from?

Oh, that was Timothy

Oh, no, he's from Orlando

Aaron from Orlando on the What Podcast, a major Patreon

By the way, some other Patreons we'd like to thank

Jason Hazelbaker, Chloe Howe, Lucy Young, Phil Hanley, Dan Sweeney, Dustin Garrague, Chelsea Davis, Frank Swanson, Linda Doles, David Grimes, Liesl Condor, Bill and Ella

Part of our Patreon group available at the WhatPodcast.com

I actually really enjoyed the Patreon chats and just chats in general because it sort of like reminds us why we do this

And it reminds us that, you know, we actually might have friends

And we're not alone

We're not total losers

It's not just us and TACO that love this festival

It's people from all over the country

That just blows my mind

That's the part that really gets me

Like we've had now... We've talked to a few Patreons

We've hit the whole corner

You haven't heard it yet, but we've talked to Seattle, we've talked to a Dallas, we've talked to now an Orlando

It's a very strange thing because I get so locked in the idea that this is just, you know, within a 150-mile radius as Bonnaroo is

But no, it's all over the place

And hearing somebody have to like travel from Seattle or Orlando and fly in and then just hope everything goes well is beyond my abilities

I couldn't... I could never live that way

And the different ways they do it

I mean, yeah, one sends her stuff ahead, flies in

One packs his stuff in an RV with his buddies who then drive and then he flies

Which is a pretty good way to do it

And then Aaron has done tent, he's done VIP, he's going to do VIP tent this year

He's running one or getting one of those VIP tents

And it hit me while we were talking to Aaron

Like I would never have thought about this sitting, you know, in our campsite at Camp Nut Butter

But boy, the AC and the Bonnaroo people figured that out

Yeah

Yeah, like, oh yeah, we've got to get more people here

How do we do it?

Let's make their life a lot easier

If they just want to ship things in, if they want a group camp, if they want a tent only

How can we make this as easy as possible for them?

We made that point a little bit

But maybe now's a good time to really put a finer point on it

When talking to Sophie with C3

The growth of the experiences out in the plaza

Remember she said it took a long time, took longer than it should have

This is why

They spent all their time and energy and money getting everything else

The VIP

I've said it, I remember walking through that first time that the VIP area was over by the old comedy tent area

I didn't like it

I was like, this is not what this festival's about, you know

It felt weird, it felt wrong

Now you kind of understand that the whole plan was to make this festival comfortable for all kinds of people

Not just me, not just you

I'm glad you brought up that Sophie conversation because it really didn't hit me that this was already happening overseas

The blueprint's already been laid down for them

They just need to actually have the money and the funds to do some of these things that make things a lot easier

I sort of forgot that part of it

Thank goodness Sophie reminded me about it because they don't have to reinvent the wheel

And we can speak to this because it's 70 miles away

Manchester is in middle Tennessee

It's not like you just walk in and plug and play

It literally was a 700 acre working farm

There's no electricity, there's no plumbing, there was no roads

So it's taken them all of these years to develop that stuff

And work with the city and work with Coffee County

When they put in sewer

This is inside baseball, sausage making stuff

So they put in the sewer, they put in water

Well the city itself is not equipped to handle it

So you can fix your plumbing in your house but if the lines coming in aren't equipped

This is why you come over to my house and fix things

This is literally inside baseball but think about that

I would never have thought of it

Yeah so you got 80,000 people now flushing a toilet

And it's going into Manchester and it's not ready to handle

So that's the kind of thing that has taken so much time

Yeah this is what you wanted to spend your time with

Talking of toilets with Barry Courter

You only get that here folks

More Patreons to thank

Ryan Matheson, Sean McCarthy, William Wilhoit

And I'm going to say hi to Clay

Alright go ahead

Hi Clay

Ross McNamara, William Richards, Evan Brown, Aaron Carlson, Timothy Proctor, Catherine Riccio

Riccio, I always miss that, Catherine Riccio, whatever

Gordon Silver and Tyrone Baskett

So this was another return guest, we haven't had many

But a return guest, Drew Holcomb

Sort of started the Moon River Festival in Memphis

And then it got a little out of his control

And it got a little bit too big

I love hearing him talk about that

Acknowledging some failures and some mistakes

And they're like I've got to bring in some people who actually know what they're doing

Big for his skillset

I mean that's, imagine you say I'm up to a party

And then all of a sudden there's 3500 people and now you can have 11,000

I've got a similar problem

I had this idea, let's do a podcast about Bonnarooo

And I'm just doing it until the real host shows up

Like it's somebody more qualified to do it

Yeah well we're going to sell it to AC

Sure, God, yeah, if they want to write a check

Although I don't know if the funding is going to be there anymore for AC

Now that the news broke

So Drew Holcomb spent some time with us at Songbirds earlier in the week

To talk festivals, to talk even Forecastle and his festival, Moon River

And Brad, yeah, Brad is the guy that so

Basically what happened is Drew and his partner, his business manager came up with the idea

It outgrew Memphis

They said we've got to get somebody who knows what they're doing

So they partnered with AC

Brad is the guy at AC

They said hey, go down to, go find us a space

And it was fascinating to hear him talk about, you know, why

Put it in a park on the river, the Tennessee River in our city

Where they've never had a closed gated ticket event before

And by the way, they don't talk about this

But there's a walking bridge open to pedestrians that walks right on top of it

So you can basically stand on the bridge and stare down and be totally okay

Which I'm sure does not make them very happy

No, that's an awkward thing for them

But it adds to it

I mean, golly, last year looking up from Brandi, golly

I know you're going to catch that

Golly gee

You look up, Brandi Carlisle is on stage

And you look up and that entire bridge is full of people

The crowd is full, the river, the Hunter Museum across

It's a gorgeous setting

It's a really nice setting

So we talk about all of that with Drew and Brad from AC, Drew Holcomb and the neighbors

And Brad from AC now on the What Podcast

I feel like we're doing a fireside chat

Sort of, that's what we're after

That's what we're after

You know, it's pretty impressive

We've only had one guest return to the podcast before

We've only had one returning guest

Now Drew is our second

Yeah, yeah, you're ties

We're here with Brad from AC, Drew from Moon River

Thank you guys so much for doing this

We're going to talk Moon River specifically, but festivals sort of in general

Which is why we wanted you to join us, Brad

Because you sort of helped set this up, right?

You took his vision and then you make it work or is that overstating?

That's definitely, that's it, yeah

We sort of had this, you know, dream that had been sort of shoe strong in Memphis

And AC sort of took it to a whole other level

So yeah, I don't have to worry about any more details, which is really nice

Yeah, so to set the stage, I guess

That's why one of the fun things, you were a guest last year we should talk about

And you talked about how to put a point on what you said earlier

You realized it was bigger than what your skill set was, right?

I don't know if I put words in your mouth

Yeah, it was bigger than my skill set

And it got to the point where it was bigger than just my fan base

So the last time we did it in Memphis, you know, I was headlining

And we had a bunch of other bands play

And you kind of got to this point where you realized that

Relative to the work that we were putting into it, it either needed to grow

Or we needed to like actually make it smaller

And so we had a lot of sort of parallel conversations

And we've been friends with and done a lot of shows with AC over the years

And we just sort of started this conversation with them about what it would look like to partner together

And sort of started talking about, well, does it have to be in Memphis or should we look elsewhere

And I said, well, it doesn't necessarily have to be in Memphis, but I want it to be in the state of Tennessee

And we sort of kind of got a lead on Coolidge Park

And went and looked at it and just thought, man, if we could pull this off, it would be perfect

But at that point, I knew that the logistics of the festival

Both from sort of a capital point of view of like

I was basically putting my house and life at risk every year

And I started having kids and that felt more and more foolish

Seriously

Rock and roll for a minute, right?

So you've got so many considerations

Staging, lights, crowd control, food and beverage, sponsors

Water, port-a-pans, water, port-a-potties

Weather, insurance

Yeah, I mean, there's literally like a list a mile long

And we were out of, we were just, you know, my manager and I were spending three or four months a year

On something that's not our sort of primary skill set or sort of

And obviously AC has that in spades

So it made sense to partner together and thankfully for them, I think it's worked out

The festival definitely has its own identity

And you know, you guys definitely, I mean, you know this

Every festival sort of has their own identity

From Hangout and they're the pop-centric thing to you guys on the completely opposite end

Did the idea of Moon River and what it ended up being

Was it born out of necessity?

Was it because the market was forcing you into an Americana type of festival?

Or is it just what you naturally are inclined to do?

I don't want to speak for Brad, but I know for me

It started out as sort of picking bands that I knew personally

And so that tended to be sort of more in the Americana space

Because, you know, if I'm playing, you know, festivals are going on tour with people

It's typically, there's some sort of musical association with that

And so, you know, I've done a co-bill, let's say that's how I met St. Paul

I met them through doing a co-bill at an event in Memphis

You know, met, you know, Will Hoag and the Dirty Gubs

Who played the first year of Moon River in Memphis

I met them just from both being sort of Tennessee songwriter bands, you know

And then I think too, as we sort of started having the conversation with AC

We realized that, like sort of this idea of an artist curated experience

That sort of is a little bit more genre narrow

Is a good thing for a smaller festival

I mean obviously Bonnarooo is like the hippest, coolest, most unique ideas

But they're also trying to sell, I don't know how many tickets Bonnarooo sells

But it's a whole lot

80,000 tickets, sure

You know, we're trying to sell a lot less than that

And we also, it was geography related, like what kind of music does the sort of

Average music fan in Chattanooga like

And we heard that sort of the Americana stuff was bluegrass especially

Is sort of, you know, well received here

So it's obviously grown out of just being bands that I know

But it's definitely a conversation we have every year

Let's come back to that, I want to bring Brad in

Because, and sort of set the stage for people who are not from Chattanooga

You put this in a park that had never had a closed off ticketed place before

So what was that first conversation and what made you think we could do that?

Well I think that one of the biggest compliments we got after the first year here

Was that people came and said we never could see Coolidge Park in the light

That Moon River was able to put it in

And I think a lot of that comes from not that we have

As AC Entertainment figured out some sort of formula

But we, you know, the festivals that we're doing that are these artist curated festivals

Like we have with Drew here and Moon River

We're doing them all across the southeast

And we have them in Charleston and we have them in Cincinnati

And we just have a thing for, honestly we have a thing for parks and rivers

I couldn't tell you of all the places in town

We wanted to be careful, one, that we weren't doing an event that was already kind of known

For hosting another event

Because you sometimes have some just brand identity associated with a location or a site

So it was important that we were doing something that was unique

Coolidge Park is a beautiful park

It's positioned in a beautiful part of town

It's easy to access, it's close to, you know, when you talk about infrastructure

That's a very important thing

And you've got a walking bridge there that leads to 85% of the hotel rooms that are in downtown Chattanooga

So as far as, you know, tourism and tourists that are coming into the show

It's just easy access

Parking, not really a huge issue

So there's a lot, it's a lot of those logistical things that play more into the decision behind a location

And for the size event that we want to do, it made the most sense

It wasn't too large that we would feel empty

But it wasn't so small that we had to cut back on how many tickets we thought we could sell or wanted to sell

Just to brag on you a little bit, I hope I'm not giving away secrets

But I understand that first sort of meeting with all the main people here

There was a couple of folks who were already, can't do this, can't do that, can't do that

And you said, let me finish my presentation and then see what you say

Well, I think it's

And my understanding was like, okay, we can do that

Because the level of detail is what I understand

Yeah, I mean, you have to think of everything

And I think it's hard, a lot of the pushback that we got from the beginning

And pushback's maybe even too strong of a word

But people, you can't, you can't

If you've never seen it, you can't, how are you supposed to accept it or be able to argue for or against it

So we just had to say, hey, listen, we do this everywhere that we go

So you've got to kind of trust us a little bit

To the level, to your point of the toilet paper and water

Like, what are you going to do about grass and the water spigots

And how are you going to take care of this and that

I mean, that's the kind of thing that people have to take care of

It's not just turn the lights on, plug in the cam kind of thing

I think part of, just back to the first question

I think part of the cool collaboration here is that

When you have an artist curing a festival, Drew is, the way I picture it

Drew is this amazing chef that's going to bring this amazing course meal

And AC is, we're making sure that the door to the place where you're going to eat opens

We're making sure the table is set, the silverware is clean

The staff is trained

Yeah, and it's very important, both of those things have to meet

In order for us to be successful

It can't be, he goes 50%, we go 50%, we've both got to be hitting everything

Everything has to be turning from both sides in order for it to be what it is

Well, it's allowed me to enjoy the festival more creatively

Both as a performer at the festival

Because I wasn't on stage thinking about, you know

Why is there some sort of kerfuffle happening with security over here on my right

Because it's not my sort of role anymore

So it's made me enjoy it more

And then I think the sort of line up curation part has become a lot more fun

Just because the festival is largely what we had in Memphis

It's sort of a different palette

We used to just do one stage and it was like eight bands a day

Now we're two stages and there's a whole lot more than that

So I'm not sure it's necessarily changed my creativity as a writer

Or as a touring artist

But it's definitely changed the experience of the festival for me

Whereas it had been a dream that it sort of turned into a little bit of a nightmare

That's a stronger word, but it's become a really big headache

And now it's just like, you know, totally like, you know, it's my belt buckle if I was a rodeo guy

It's like, that's my thing

I was looking for a metaphor and that's what came to me

I think we had talked before and it was like a child

You're watching a child grow

Yeah, now it's like the child's off of college

It's just so different than what you're usually doing on a daily basis

You're not writing a song, you're not writing a guitar part

You're literally building an entire festival

Does that whole thing make you feel differently or think differently about your career

And what else you can do and how you can expand your palette?

What it's made, what it's done, at least this was part of my vision

Is I have played a million festivals and I'd say that the experience ranges from like wonderful to like really, really terrible

And I wanted to be a music festival that artists really wanted to come be a part of because they took really good care of the artists

I mean, there's little things like, you know, as little competing stages

You know, we don't have that at Moon River at all

Obviously some festivals at their scale can't do that and they're so diverse that it doesn't matter as much

But, you know, little things like that, the backstage is really good for the artists

And just really wanted to make it the kind of thing where it felt like a reunion of sorts for both the festival goers

But also for the artists to feel like a community thing and not just some sort of, you know

We've never made enough money on this thing that it's like, oh yeah, we got in this for them

I mean, if we got in this for the money, we were foolish, you know

Because it's not, I mean, it's been successful but it took us, you know, seven years for it to become successful

In a way that was sort of relatively, you know, relative to time and sort of love put into it

But I hope that it makes other festivals, you know, other people dream up their own thing

Right

To build community and I love that we're not just like, I don't, you couldn't pick Moon River up and just put it anywhere

It's sort of tied into the place, you know, I think that's important

That's a great point of that and it's interesting because we talk about it all the time

The idea that the artist is having a good time with something they want to come to

And then from your side, the fans are seeing something

Another one of those detailed things, I'm pretty sure it was you that thought of getting the aquarium lights to be the same as your lighting, right?

Yeah

I mean, that's just a cool detail that makes everything feel different and special

You know, we talk about it's those kind of things when you walk out and feel like I've just had a unique experience for a couple of places

But the river, that was the thing, you landed on the river and then said, how do we make this work?

Yeah

Right

Yeah, and you all know, I mean, part of the appeal for us as AC, we've done work in Chattanooga for years

And we've done a lot of work with the Tivoli and Walker Theater and Soldiers and Sailors

So we've always wanted to do a festival here, but it took this, you know, all of that coming together at once to be like, that's the light bulb, the light bulb's on now, this is what we're gonna do

Now actually to the actual lineup line-up, I'm sure you guys are enormously proud of creating what you created this year

I mean, Yola, to me, is still the shining star of all festival line-ups until I see her

I'm just so obsessed with her on every level

I was reading this article from a guy from 1975, the lead singer of 1975 basically said that he will not play a festival unless it is 50-50 male-female split

Is that something that you guys are conscious of when you're making your lineup?

Absolutely, and that conversation sort of started internally with me through my friendship with Brandy Carlisle

Who headlined last year, but she had started speaking up about that as sort of an issue inside of music as well

And so, I mean, yeah, there's like, we are very intentional with making sure that we are a part of the solution to a real problem, you know, in the music business

And, you know, that's been a lot of fun

It would be easy to throw together, there's just so many male singer-songwriter guys, it would be easier to just throw a festival

But I don't think it would be very, it wouldn't have the identity that we have

I think that it's been a win for all parties to be as thoughtful as you can about the lineup

We want to have a sort of lineup that reflects the diversity of what it's like to be a human being, especially in Tennessee

Does that go for the scheduling of it too?

You know, have female representation at all levels of the bill, you know, at least that's certainly a goal that we have

Up the lineup, Drew, who's on there that you haven't seen that you're really looking forward to, and who's on there that you are very familiar with, the whole office?

Probably, I'm going to go with Drew Holcomb and the neighbors being the...

Although I've never seen him live, because I've always been him live, I don't know what it's like to be in the audience when he plays, but...

It's pretty good

The person I haven't seen that I'm the most excited about is Billy Strings, he's incredible from what I've seen sort of online and what I've heard

I think most everybody else on here, I've seen or heard, I just heard Molly Tuttle and Amethyst Kia last week on this music cruise called K-Amo

And they were incredible, I tell you, someone I haven't seen in a long, long time is the Indigo Girls

I think, you know, that's going to be incredible, and Nicholl Creek sort of semi coming out of retirement

How'd that happen?

I got a lot of phone calls and begging, yes

I actually saw them in Chattanooga when I was in college

What were you doing in Chattanooga in college?

No kidding

I looked it up, it was 93, right?

No, no, I'm only younger than that

2002

Jesus, Barry

It was in the summer of 67, I remember

They were playing up on Lookout Mountain, and a free show

Really? No kidding

So I went up there, and there was a piece of that for me that was related to Chattanooga

But did you get some sort of hint as to this was about to happen, or was it something that you pushed for?

We shared some mutual friends, and yeah, we sort of put official channels out there

And then also let the unofficial channels know that

One thing that we've got going for us now is most artists, at least that are within the musical world that we're dealing with

Are aware of us now, so it's not like a cold pitch

Like, hey, we can play a festival we've never heard of

Because a lot of artists, especially ones like them that don't do very many shows at all

They want to come out and do a show that needs to be something sort of special, so they were convinced of that

And then also bringing in the Live From Here show for the Friday night piece was a thing that helped make the whole

Yeah, where did that come from? Explain that, because that's a totally new wrinkle, right?

Yeah, so Chris from Nickel Creek, Kristie Lee, took over what was Pray Home Companion, now it's Live From Here

They film it all over the country

It's probably the preeminent variety radio show in the country, if not the world

And as we got to talking to them, we thought maybe if we could convince them to also do the show here

It might be easier to make the whole package work

And obviously the venue is perfect for that, Soldiers and Sailors

Is it Sailors and Soldiers or Soldiers and Sailors?

Yeah, it was just sort of a, honestly it was kind of a, you know, we threw sort of a knuckleball to see if they would take it

No, who's making that pitch? Is it you or is it AC?

It's AC on behalf of the festival

Interesting

Those are conversations that we have, you know, pretty much weekly, all the booking, yeah

Self, Paul, my manager and partner on the original festival, and then Brian

When does that start for next year?

Oh, I don't know, it usually starts about a month after the show

Yeah, right about now, right?

Some calls being made on the day of the festival

Yeah

Say, hey, we're looking at next year, let's do it

I want to point out and give them a shout out, I guess, but our own Strong Like a Horse is on this year

And we've sort of quietly been saying, because there was some chatter from people local, one of their local bands

But we always said they should earn it, and it feels like these guys have earned it

So I love that they have to earn it, and I love that they did

Yeah, they're great, and we're really honored, they said yes

And actually, Amethyst, she lives in Johnson City, but she grew up here in Chattanooga

How about that?

No kidding

Yeah, they're really excited about it, so I'm excited, that's great

Because they just came back from Americana Fest UK or UK Fest, and that's what I mean

It means something when everybody on there has earned it, so to speak

Yeah, and I hope, I mean, I think AC has this hope too, especially because they book a lot of shows here in Chattanooga outside of the festival

You know, I want Moon River to be the kind of thing that raises both the touring and the local and regional presence of Chattanooga as a market

You know, so that more people come, and so that more local bands sort of

I think if people get used to going to see more shows, which starts with maybe a festival or, you know, like shows at Walker and Signal, all these other places in town that have sort of sprouted

Or kind of grown wings in the last half decade or decade, that creates better soil for local music to sort of rise up

At least that's our, certainly my hope, and I think that would definitely be AC, so

Now, as an artist, you're on the forecastle lineup too

I wondered, when you go to plan your year out and you say we're going to do a tour, are you specifically targeting certain festivals?

Or, you know, do you do it off cycle? How does a festival work into your touring plans in general when you plan your year?

It really just depends on the region, I mean, obviously, because I'm going to be on the Moon River lineup as long as it makes sense

I always joke my new sort of career goal is to get back to where I can headline my own festival again, now that it's grown so much

I think you know the people that can make that happen

You gotta earn it

Yeah, I gotta earn it, that's right, gotta earn it

But yeah, I mean, there's certainly, it kind of goes both ways as an artist

There's some festivals that come to you and they say, you know, there's others that you kind of have to fight and scrap to get on the lineup

You know, there's, I've gotten to play a lot of really, really great ones

There's really only one or two left on my list that are like, man, I really want to play it

None of those

Like Newport and Telluride, those would be the two

Yeah, so it goes both ways and it just depends on the timing and you know, like there's a lot of practical things with it

Like, you know, I'm sure listeners would love, would be interested to know that most of the time when you book a festival

There's what's called a radius clause and it's sort of, you know, if you're going to play X Festival

They draw a mileage circle around it so you please don't play outside of the, inside of this circle from, you know, 90 days before to 120 days after

Yep

And so, you know, for instance, Chattanooga is in a pretty tight geographic market where you've got Atlanta and Nashville

Birmingham

Birmingham

Sure

We have to, you know, when we're booking acts that's sometimes a part of the conversation like, well, we've got this show in Atlanta, you know, in August

You know, how can we work that out? And so it's either work it out or you say maybe we'll do it another year or you adjust budgets

I mean, there's all sorts of ways to have these conversations but that's a pretty interesting part of the whole process

Yeah

It's a puzzle, it's always a puzzle

Sweet

More Patreons to thank, Mary T, Musical Antlers, we're going to learn more about Musical Antlers

Andrew T. McBride, Justin Negro, Phil Nye, Sean McCain, Skyler, David Henson, David Solano, Brooke Tussie, Joshua Herndon, Laura Eldholm, Nick Eatman and Haley

Oh, and then Melody and Jesse Feldman, thank you all for being Patreons, thank Aaron for being a Patreon

More Patreons to talk to next week, we also very excited in the upcoming weeks, Bonerulet

I mistakenly said Bonerulet was going to be this week but we sort of stumbled into the Drew Holcomb thing

So Bonerulet coming up in a two part series in the upcoming weeks, I'm very excited about that

Anything else to...

I love Bonerulet, one of my favorite things

Okay, alright

Yeah, because we don't have to work

No, it's easy

We just play ten seconds of a song and move on

It's easy

And by the way, I should point out that if you're hoping to see that on YouTube, you're not because of copyright things

So that would be a podcast only audio thing

Look at that guy, doing some maintenance work

I know, trying to think ahead because I'm guessing people just love seeing Brad's hair

I mean, guessing is the wrong word

Barry Courter, Brad Steiner, talk to you next week on the What Podcast