The What Podcast
Sixthman VP Jeff Cuellar joins The What Podcast to Talk Bonnaroo, Cruise Festivals, and More
Season 5, Episode 8
Published March 23, 2022
https://beta.thewhatpodcast.com/episode/sixthman-vp-jeff-cuellar-joins-the-what-podcast-to-talk-bonnaroo-cruise-festivals-and-more

The What Podcast, which bands this year that matter? Oh, hi,

friend. Barry Courter. I'm Brad Steiner. I'm not Barry. He's

Barry. I'm Brad. Yeah, how are you, buddy?

Hi, Brad. I'm doing great.

How are you?

I'm doing super too. I want to get right into this because it's

a very lengthy chat with a human being who we adore and we have

the utmost respect for. And not only that, it's very insightful,

not only to see how the festival world and the music experiences

are changing and evolving, but also if you are a Bonnarooo nerd,

festival nerd, you're going to get a lot of answers, a big chunk

of our chat today with Jeff Cuellar, the back half of it is

all about Bonnarooo and his time there, which was considerable,

considerable for 20 some odd years.

Yeah, not just Bonnarooo, Railbird, Four Castle. If anybody

in the industry knows anything about the growth of festivals in

America since Bonnarooo came on board in 2002, it's Jeff Cuellar.

He's been the face of it. He's been the guy behind the scenes.

He's been, as you point out, Brad, and I think you nailed it

right on. He is the brand. He is the voice of the brand, put it

that way. He's the guy that when we had questions had the answer,

and he's the guy that helped drive the train, so to speak, on

a lot of what has developed over the years.

I tell you the people I like the most in this industry are the

ones that make it look easy. Everything he does, he makes it

look easy. Maybe it's because he's the coolest cat in the world,

but he just makes everything look so effortless, almost to

the point where I ask myself, what does he do for a living?

Is he this job? Because it seems so easy for him. It just rolls

off of his tongue. Excellent communicator. Remind me before

we get into this, explain his job and what he's doing now,

vis-a-vis what he was doing before with Bonnarooo. He was

very similar. Actually, when he was at Bonnarooo, when we first

met him, he was at AC Entertainment, and then which was

bought by Live Nation. His job was essentially vice president

of partnerships, and it had a whole long string of things

behind it. He once told me he's kind of the guy that when they

have a new thing, and they can't figure out who should be in

charge, it becomes Jeff. He's BP. Over 20 years, everything

became a new thing. Yeah, he was the guy that, hey, TV stations

want to quote, they go get Jeff. Hey, what should we do with this

VIP section? Go ask Jeff. He literally had his hand in

everything. He currently is vice president of partnerships with

sixth man, S-I-X-T-H-M-A-N, which is, and we talk about it,

the global leader in festivals at sea, but also sand and land.

So he's shifted jobs. He's very much doing the exact same thing.

It sounds like just on a boat, just on a boat, just a boat

capacity. And on islands that the company owns. Yeah, pretty

sweet spots. But when you were talking about what a cool guy

is, I mean, one of the questions we asked him is about that

decision back in September to cancel Bonnarooo. And I mean, he

gave the right answer. I can only imagine how gut wrenching

all of that was, but like you said, they handled it like

professionals made the right decision. So we've said it for

whatever, five years now, having him on as a guest that first

time, I think is when we realized this show could be a

little bit more than what we originally thought. Yeah, because

of people like him. That's right. Yeah. I mean, we, we, we

originally thought, yeah, exactly right. That conversation

changed the entire direction of this, of this entity. And

there's one answer he gives in particular about this, about

this festival that we all love so much that really warms my

heart. It makes me very, very excited. And you'll hear it

there chat with Jeff Cuellar, who was just so wonderful with his

time. I hope you enjoy it. We will not be back after the after

the interview. So enjoy that today. And we'll be back next

week on the podcast. And you know, enjoy. It's Jeff Cuellar.

You're gonna be living within an hour of Barry Courter. I will.

I can ignore him from 90 minutes away.

Yeah. Let me give you a hint. I lived five minutes from Barry

Quarter. I still never saw him. So you're in for a treat, my

friend. You're in for a treat.

Nice.

We're just being honest.

What part of what are you? What part of the country are you in

now?

I'm currently still in northern California, just outside the Bay

Area.

So you're leaving northern California for Atlanta.

You say it so so disparagingly. Like, I'm making a good move

here. Yes, yes, yes, I am. I am. And I will say, the things

there there are there are less things I will miss. Then then

things I will not miss.

Why there? Sure.

Biggest thing. That's a big thing. Let me just start with

the obvious question question. Have you ever been to Atlanta?

Yeah, I have lived in Atlanta, yet I have I've had good times

in Atlanta. And I got this close to producing a festival in

Atlanta. But um, we ended up pulling the plug due to a

hurricane that came through. If you guys remember when

Tomorrow World got knocked out, it was just outside of Atlanta.

We got the remnants of that that destroyed our build for

Afro punk when we were we were

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I do remember that.

So that's that's some fun Atlanta. I like I've seen the

house that I purchased. It seems it seems cool. I'm excited

about the area.

As we're as someone who is preparing for a move myself, I

I'm literally it Do you know how fear the fear that lives

inside of me to sign a lease with an apartment slash

building that you've never seen before?

I've done it twice. Oh, very aware. Yeah. I actually I bought

a house like not this time. I at least went out and saw this

house. The first house I ever owned. We did not see it first.

Wow. My mother did that when my dad moved the family from

Indiana to North Georgia. And I mean, this it's rather

relevant and we won't belabor this. But as we're driving

from the airport on that 40 minute drive, about 35 minutes

in my mother looks at my dad and says, Bill, what have you

done? And I'm pretty sure she put the for sale sign right

back in the yard.

So first off, you know, and I and I apologize, this is going

to get personal in the next, you know, little while here.

But why did you make the move to get out of this version of

the industry and into a completely new one?

It really was complete. I don't call it serendipity. I wasn't

looking. I think you guys know me well enough to know that I

was happy. I was really happy. I love doing what I did. And

I mean, obviously, I'm still essentially kind of doing a lot

of what I did beforehand. And I felt like even with some of

the transition that we had from, you know, coming out of the

pandemic, and then being now like under C3, and reporting in

that way, honestly, there was a lot of opportunity to continue

to grow. What you know, was kind of being put forth in front

of me in terms of that, that those growth opportunities were

fantastic, plus a much larger team at our disposal that I

really hadn't had in the past. So from a standpoint of was I

happy? And was I looking? No, I wasn't looking for anything. I

was I was happy doing what I was doing. And obviously, floored

that, you know, we didn't get to execute Bonnarooo. That still I

mean, every time that just enters my brain, I'm just

starting to just cringe because that was so painful. But I

wasn't looking. And then, you know, honesty, a headhunter

reached out to me, and it's someone I'd known as someone

had known for a while. And he's like, you know, I know, he knew

I just moved out to California, or I, you know, recently moved

out to California for my wife's position. And he was like,

Listen, I know you just moved out here, or recent. And, but

there's this opportunity. And I think you would be perfect for

it. And I would be remiss not to at least talk to you about it.

Can I jump in real quick?

Should we do like station IDs or like that?

Well, something like that. Something like that. I ran across

some traffic on the 10s. Hang on a second, something that some

sums all this up. And it's, it's almost a better explanation of

why we're talking to you. First of all, I was thinking about it

this morning. I think you had maybe the best job next to mine

that I know of, except you probably make a made a whole lot

more money than I do. I love what I do. And, and the job you

had. So I just did a search and the headline and it's on global

newswire. And for people who don't know who Jeff is, I think

this really is just sort of, but acclaimed music festival

director, Jeff Quayer joined sixth man as VP of partnerships,

which they describe as the global leader in festivals at

sea. Now you we've always teased you about your, your titles.

That's a good one. I didn't even know festivals at sea existed,

but it points out, you know, your leadership roles at ACC

three live nation, Bonnarooo, forecastle, high water, rail

bird, moon river, and a lot more. And I mean, to me, that's

why, I mean, you've been a guest on their show a couple of

times. And Brad and I've always said you've been one of our

favorites because it's always been so insightful, but that's

what we want to talk about is for 20 years since it started.

I mean, you've been right there at the forefront of developing

these things that we love. So I just thought it was interesting

that it's not just us that think that highly of you. It's all

these other people. Oh, that's, that's be fair. I mean, we know

who writes the press releases. So however it gets done. I don't

I don't know what you're talking about, Brad. So it is an

interesting time to do this because, well, I'll put I won't

put words in your mouth. Do you feel some sort of shift in the

festival world away from what you had built and the things

that you had seen in the years with with Bonnarooo and then C

three live nation? I don't want to call it necessarily a shift,

but I definitely see the growth in our in the industry. We've

talked before in the past about how I mean, Europe is I still

feel ahead of the United States when it comes to the adoption of

the festivals and how consumers essentially is woven into the

fabric of entertainment choices and things of how they want to

consume and be a part of these events. And the US has been

catching up quickly in that space. But one of the things

that I think has started to really develop over the past few

years is this immersive experience. And it is more I

think as artists have become, I don't want to say bigger, but

more developed from a standpoint of not just being banned on a

stage, but the extensions of some make wine, some make

whiskey, some do podcasts, some have fashion lines, some have

there's so much more that are entangled into what is what it

means to be an artist now that these more immersive events are

really intriguing. And I think that's kind of where they caught

my attention when I started having the conversations in my

initial conversation with Anthony Diaz, who is the CEO of

Sixman, was this understanding that they are gathering, the

goal is to gather these passionate fan bases. So when a

lot of people think, let's go grab the biggest artists there

is that is selling millions upon millions of what are we

selling, even concert tickets these days. And that's who you

want to create a destination experience around. But it's not.

It is really looking at those artists that have these rabid

fan bases that are in Reddit groups that have fan clubs that

are buying merch that are doing all of the things that make

associated with that particular artist, and then be able to

create an experience there because you ask a lot of a fan to

come and to do an immersive destiny like come on vacation,

you know, with me and understand what it is to be a part of it.

But, you know, honestly, it while we've created and I'd say

one of the aspects that I loved previously about, you know, my

other role was, I felt like I had a great opportunity to find

and work in underserved markets. And some of these, you know,

that are not the major metropolitan areas, but you know,

the Charleston, South Carolina, the Louisville, Kentucky, the

Lexington, Kentucky's, Asheville, North Carolina, some of these

hotspots that are just so juicy in terms of what they offer as

an experience that we got to shine a light on that.

Yeah.

I love when you say the words juicy hot spot.

So I loved that ability to create that spotlight on some of

those communities and really dig in and be able to showcase it

through food, through art, through all those different

things. And the shift for this is I'm now getting to do that

for an artist and being able to look at it from that standpoint

and not necessarily just partnering with an artist, but it

can be doing maybe around a genre. Where are the passions at?

You know, before I joined Six Man, you know, they had done

like Walker Stalker crews and those people who are extremely

passionate about the walking dead got to have that kind of

experience over a number of years. They've done comedy

before like in Practical Jokers. They've done all of these

different things where there is a passionate fan base and that

are looking for that next level experience versus perhaps going

to, let's call it a land based festival, that is more or less,

let's give you a smorgasbord. I mean, it's curated. So I don't

want to say a smorgasbord, but you know, a curated experience

down a certain genre or whatever it may be, but you're

still only getting what, you know, 45 minutes to maybe two

hours if you're a headliner on a stage.

So let me back up for a second. So there is a basically what

you're talking about is you can, you find an artist, you find

a clan, you find a fan base, you find the group of people that

would join a cruise, then you curate an entire experience for

them for an insert amount of days. The bigger the artist, I'm

guessing the bigger the cruise, the smaller the artist, the

more, you know, small the boat. Am I going in the right

direction here?

Kind of. You know, I would say that the model has been

refined over the years in terms of what makes sense. And you

know, Norwegian about, I guess it's about 10 years ago,

purchased Six Man. So the ability to have an understanding

of where we can move ships around in order to create these

experiences. Norwegian owns two islands. So therefore our

access to be able to create, you know, do something different

and actually utilize the island as a potential destination

space and then resorts, you know, resorts are part of this

too. And it does so it doesn't necessarily have to involve a

ship. But that is the I would say that the bulk of the

business revolves around a ship, but doesn't have to be. So

we've done events, so all the best with John Prine, you know,

rest in peace that that event that was done with them, Melissa

Etheridge, we've got one coming up and we're doing that at

Playa Mujeres. So it doesn't have to be a cruise, but it

can be.

Just real quick, if there just happened to be a rabid fan base

that loved, say, a podcast, and they all wanted to go on a

cruise together, that podcast probably wouldn't fill a

Norwegian ship, but would they have a pontoon boat available

for us?

You know, it's podcast is actually one of those verticals

that, you know, we're looking at is as as an option. I think

there is there's something there. I mean, you look at the

fans who are who are tuning into podcasts the way they are

now. How does that work? How do you super serve that guest? And

maybe, you know, either show them how the sausage is made or

do something interactive in a way that really capitalizes on

it. But it's it's so much more than just bands on a stage.

Right. I mean, that's where I was gonna take TikTok stars,

for instance, you get a whole bunch of TikTok stars on a

that's a it's a really it's fascinating now that I've

thought about it, because you're right. I immediately when

all this happened, I was like, Oh, Jeff's running some cruise

ships. This makes so much more sense now.

Okay. But it's the what I was going to say listening to you

and thinking back to, you know, some of our conversations

about our Moon River here, which is a boutique festival.

One of the things you said was people are looking for that

next level experience. They want a unique experience. They

just don't want to go stand in a field or somewhere and watch

a 90 minute set or a 45 minute set. They want to feel like

they've seen something unique. But it sounds like this takes

it further where it's a two way street, where not just the fan

is having that experience, but the artists now want to be

involved, right? It is. So my first event that I did with

six man was soul shine, where Michael Franti was it was

partnership with Michael Franti. And to see him, I mean,

he's such an amazing individual period. But to see him and his

wife on the ship and their interaction with guests, you

would think that they I mean, like, it was Christmas for

them. And in terms of just some artists, you know, they want

maybe a little bit more separation. And we have the

ability to create that with different ways to configure, you

know, where they sit is a place called a haven that I mean,

honestly, you talk about roll like a rock star looking like

an amazing place to to experience a show, be in the

haven as an artist like, wow, I get paid to go do this. And

travel around through the Caribbean or wherever, wherever

we're going to go Europe doesn't, you know, pick the

destination. So there are different even experiences that

we can provide to the artists, but those artists that choose

to just kind of maybe be exposed a little bit, and kind

of let their guard down and say, these are my most passionate

fans, these are the fans that will basically carry me through

as long as I choose to have a career. Yeah, they're kind of

having that understanding. And knowing that, yeah, I can go

sit down, have a cup of coffee and just allow people to come

sit down with me. And we just trade some stories. And then I

have to go walk away because now I am up to go do a set on a

stage or do do a cooking presentation in terms of like

things that I like and just being able to showcase the

personalities that are a part of this artist and not just the

host artists, but even the other artists that are trying to

gain this following. So you've got a lot of I mean, it's not

just one act, you know, it's typically, you know, peppered

with several acts. And those acts have the opportunity to

make fans that will carry them through the rest of their the

rest of the group. I mean, I mean, fans think it's in the

past, especially it's, you know, it's a glamorous life, but

they don't understand it's 20 hours or 22 hours on the same

bus, roll into a city backstage, unload, play the show and leave

and, you know, rinse and repeat. Right. You know, which which

has its pluses. I'm you know, it beats digging a ditch. But

what you're talking about is, you know, an immersive. That's

what I mean. It's both ways. It is definitely both ways.

Right. And you know, there's definitely opportunity to make

money. How much control are you giving the artist in or whoever

your feature is with something like this? I ask because when

you started talking about the immersive experience and

changing and growing sort of from what festivals were, it was

remarkable to watch Hootie and the Blowfish basically just

throw their own festival. We're going to go to we're going to

go to Mexico. We're going to be a bare naked ladies, blues

traveler and Hootie. And we're going to play for three days on

the beach. That was it struck me as why aren't more bands just

doing that? Why aren't bands curating their own their own

things like that? And I wonder how much control if a band

really wants to how much control do they have over what

you're offering in one of these things? I think I think it's

becoming a motto that more and more bands want to participate

in. The question is not necessarily can they but they're

expensive. You know, I mean, they're definitely it's just

like I mean anything involving a live performance. There is an

immense amount of risk that goes into it. So where who is who is

taking that risk on and how you know how is that being you know

served. So I think there is you know that hat you have to get

past that. And we kind of have created this proprietary index

of honestly, we'll take an artist and run it through to

determine whether or not we feel like it's a safe bet. And if

it you know, if it gets high on the index, it's something to

say like there's something here. And if the artist is going to

have that kind of participation and be a part of it, we feel

like there's a great chance of success. There's also something

you run through you're like, no, that's that's going to be a

risk. And if the artist is willing to help share that risk,

then you know, perhaps you know, we can take a look. But it is,

it really is funny, you know, kind of running through that

stuff. Some artists you would think are like slam dunks. And

they are because asking someone to join you on a three, four,

five, seven night vacation, you know, and perhaps on a cruise

ship, because let's be honest, there are stereotypes that are

involved in cruise ships. And I think until people experience

one of these events, they're like, oh, my God, it's totally

not what I thought it was gonna be like, I'll be honest, my

first one too, I was like, I think I went in with a certain

expectations. And I was completely floored. I'm like, oh,

I get it. And you know, one of the easiest, most tangible

thing having my background of the number of times I've used a

porta potty, didn't have to use a porta potty once. And that

alone was

that's because I wrote off the boat.

But just like the ease of access and how tired like you

aren't like I'm a fan of music festivals. Anyway, I'm going to

continue to go to them. But you're exhausted. And I can

honestly say, even after working, you're like, not bad.

Like, that's a pretty solid place to be in the Caribbean, you

know, enjoying it in kind of a different way. You know,

everything's got its pluses and minuses. But it's a it really

is a beautiful thing. And to kind of watch it and to see

these bands, and I liken it to the most passionate Bonnaroo

fans. So think about that, like on a scale of like, within a

specific artist base, it's just the knowledge, the

understanding of the operations, the all of it, like that's

where it kind of clicked with me when I started having these

initial conversations like, we're basically taking the most

passionate bands, which, you know, I dealt with on a Bonnaroo

level, and doing it in a destination. What's been the

most interesting one that you've done so far? I'm still

I'm still I'm not I'm not salty yet. I've now only had my

second cruise. So my first way, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait,

is there a group of the salty? Is there there's like an

induction ceremony to become salty? Is there a full thing?

Really? Yeah, yeah, you start getting like there's number of

events, and there's number of days at sea. And it's it's

pretty amazing to see the you know, some of my colleagues and

stuff, the number of days they've been at see a number of

events they participated in. You get to a certain number and

all of a sudden you're wearing an eye patch. Like what? Yeah,

you go around the Cape and you got to get an earring. Is it

all that you just you understand things about

maritime law and other stuff that is just it's just a

different it's just a different life. You've done two so far,

then I've done two. Yep, I did Joe Bonham, our partnership

with Joe Bonham, us to the Keeping the Blues Alive, which

I think was either the six or the seven iteration of that

event. In fact, we've got them again here in in Europe. So

we're going to Mediterranean one will be sailing this summer.

But yeah, and two from soul shine with fronty to Joe Bonham

us to keep the blues live completely different

experiences hands down. And but the one thing that carries

true is the passion and just the sheer happiness. Everyone is

just billowing out the entire time and it really is a way to

focus in on you know, with our company and our values is

you know, super serve the guest. And I think the artists

see that too, as a way of saying like, you are taking care

of again, the people who are going to take care of us for

the rest of my career. Does this feel like next level or an

addition? Or does it feel like it's going to replace

something? Will it replace festivals or live shows or just

feels like it's a next level? It is. It definitely is a next

level type of thing. It is it is not for you know, not for

everybody. I think as artists recognize their power and of

course their ability to to make money on the touring side of

things, it is to me it's almost one of the purest ways for them

to build that bond with their fan base. I mean, 311. I want to

say we've done 10 cruises with them, 10 events with them and

now we are we're helping to handle 311 day as a part of their

team that was actually just in Vegas. We had team just get back

from the 311 day in Vegas. But to think that you know, we've

been doing their cruises for a number of years and then you

know now helping them on and when they do 311 days. So it's

like every other year is when they do their cruise. But I

mean, thinking about 311. I mean, the you know, no one can

say that they're huge in terms of like chart popping and

things of all those lines. But they've got that fan base that

you know, will carry them the rest of the way. And I think

they're passionate. Our fastest selling before we did launched

the Emos Not Dead. So we partnered with Matt Cutshaw and

the Emos Not Dead social handle and launched that event that's

happening this fall. Coheed and Cambria was the fastest selling

event in six man history. I want to say it sold out in like

three days. And now you've got Emos Not Dead, which I think

sold out in two. But you think about like Coheed and Cambria,

like no offense to Coheed and Cambria, phenomenal act. But

you know, they're not a household name for a lot of

folks. Well, they've got a massively passionate fan base.

I'm just sitting here thinking our own Roger Allen Wade, who

people will know he's Johnny Knoxville's cousin. If you're

going to be, you got to be tough. He's a known guy. He's a

Chattanooga guy. He just this past week came off of a cruise

with Lucinda Williams and Emmylou Harris and somebody else.

And my point in that is Emmylou and Lucinda are not people that

I imagine say, you know what, I want to hang out on a boat with

people I don't know. But they did. Oh, yeah. Multiple times.

They are pretty salty themselves. And I think I

understand the value that these types of events bring to the

table. Yeah, they just got off the outlaw cruise. So it's outlaw

country cruise, which we are having the first or first or

second iteration outlaw west this fall. And I think they

already announced dates for outlaw the continuation of

because it's now hitting its. So these are all obviously port

from different cities. When you get the people that buy

tickets, the people who are are they mostly local from the

city that they're porting from all over? Are they? So when you

said the Mediterranean that's happening, you know, am I am I

buying something that is including a flight to get to

the port city or it's on you. Yeah. So it leaves in the port

city. It's up to you to get to the port city. And then from

there, you know, you're essentially your ticket, your

cabin pays for all of your experience on the ship. You're

obviously your your your stay and food. Now there are some

like upper food packages that you can get. There are some

restaurants and stuff that are on board ship that you can pay

a little extra for something along those lines. And then

your drinks are are on you as well. I hate that I just asked

that question because it turns you into a travel agent all of

a sudden. You know, I'm sorry to get from my package. It's new

the number of new people who get introduced to cruising

because of this is I mean, let's let's be let's be frank.

It's why Norwegian, you know, was so impressed with and

wanted to, you know, wanted to bring six men in the fold is it

is a way to help shape or shake the stigma that cruising is

just for older demographic because we got a we got a pair

of more crews. You know, we've done pair more for a number of

years. You talk about, you know, the, you know, it's a young

demographic. Well, I guess at least it was younger even when

we were started doing these things, but that are piling on

and you hear the majority of them. This is their first time

on a ship and it's definitely not going to be their last. Now

are they, you know, I think it's it's it's up to us to

continue to deliver and over deliver on those experiences,

whether it's changing ports, acts that support it, the

experiences that are on board, all of it. But you know, it all

goes as part of the experience. That's what I was going to say.

I could see where, you know, my first one, maybe I went to the

Caribbean with coheed and then I find out they're going to next

time do an Alaska one. I could I could see where, you know, I

get to see the band I love, but now I'm going to, you know, do a

cruise in a part of the world I've never seen before. So

exactly. So this is all this is all with Six Man. Is it is it

in conjunction with any of the Live Nation A.E.G.s of the world?

Are you guys all booking this yourself? It's primarily coming

through us. But yes, and we have worked with other partners in

terms of of trying to secure talent and things along those

lines. But again, it's it's one of those things that you got to

kind of get it. And we try to invite folks to see it and to

see the haven especially. And there's different class ships. I

mean, to your point beforehand, like what size ship we've got a

model that works around like the what we call the jewel class.

And like the Norwegian Pearl is a is a ship that we use quite

often, but we've configured it to a point like we know how to

load and unload in terms of production, build a stage on the

pool deck and the types of things that make it work in a

flawless type of way. Because one thing that's different is,

you know, when we build festivals, depending upon the

event, you know, I'd get anywhere from nine, you know,

three, four, five, nine days to build an event. You've got less

you've got hours, because that ship could potentially be

somewhere else. It's coming into dock, we basically crane

stuff on, decorated out, you know, vibe it out the way needs

to vibe out, load up passengers, and and we're going and then the

way we kind of have some certain things structured, we'll

do kind of back to backs. So you could have kiss coming off,

and soul shine coming on in the same day, and we're able to

flip branding everything with the ship and how many how many a

year are they pulling off? Um, next year, we are I think right

now we're going to be we're slated for 22 events.

Okay, so but we've got we've got right now I've got three

back to back that are about to leave out of ported out of

Miami. And then we'll have I think five more in the fall. And

then one one in Europe, or one of the Mediterranean this

summer. And this is, you know, obviously, it's kind of our as

we're kind of scaling back up to, to get to take place. But

yeah, 2023 is going to be an exciting year. And 2024 is

going to be even bigger. And we're already, you know, 2022

three is just about fully booked. And then 2024 is I would

say, you know, do you have do you have like a white whale? Do

you have a big one that you that you're just holding in the

back? You're probably like, I got a I got I got Lady Gaga. I'm

really? Um, I think that's part of the mentality that's

probably shifted for me, because, you know, I used to

think about headliners. And, you know, what is going to be

best to draw on a festival crowd and pull them into whatever

city we're doing? Um, where my headspace has changed a lot is,

who are the most passionate fan bases? So I don't really

think about it in terms of like white whales anymore. And from

that standpoint of like, who do we want to see on you know, what

stage of Bonnarooo? It is more or less now, who can we you know,

who's the best for us to superserve? Like who were who

had who gets it? And who, um, you know, who's got that fan

base that just is really attractive to create something

special. And then we build our own event. So like Kiamo, which

is about to happen, this iteration of it is a festival

brand that we've created, that, you know, we take and move a lot

of places. What's trying to think of more that we've got

there's just so many. We've got a new one that's about to

launch here in like, two weeks, three weeks, I'll look at my

calendar somewhere that there'll be a brand new festival

concept we've got coming out that I'm personally I'm really,

really excited about it. So well, my seed in terms of

genres. Well, speaking of festivals, yeah. What do you

miss the most about the festival world and the festival

life? Oh, that's a good question. I mean, I would

probably say my team, the team that we've built, you know,

over the years. And when I say team, you know, it's the, you

know, the immediate, you know, colleagues, the same company

stuff, but as well as the the industry as a whole, from that

standpoint, and getting into it in a city and trying to solve

those kind of challenges like it is a it's a special group of

people. And, you know, they are family in a lot of ways, and

they will continue to be family, I will always support

everything they're currently doing out there. So it is I

would say, you know, the fact that you know, some of the some

of these people I've been working with for 20 years. I'm

not working with some of them. And you know, but there are

some that, you know, have jumped over and are now working

with us in different ways. I mean, I've got I've got a

couple people that were that worked with me, you know, AC,

on our events that are now full time at six man. So it is that

I know that will develop. And I know, you know, that will

happen. There's also several that are contractors that are

part of six men events that I've seen them like, Oh, my God,

yeah, we we've worked together a bunch. So I think that will

start to commingle more. But it really is the team and I'll say

to the cities, you know, there is there is something special

about I mean, I'll say it, no matter what, you know,

Manchester, Coffey County has has been a home for me, I think

I want to add it up days, I've spent more time in in Manchester

than any other city in my life. So you know, those types of

things, I still keep in touch with a lot of people in those

places, and even other cities that you know, that we've done

business in and that, you know, I liked being able to shine a

light on those communities, because they are so special. I

want to, I want to ask about Manchester and the 20 years and

all that. But let's work backwards a little bit if we

can. You mentioned it. And we've obviously talked about it

probably to death on this show and a lot of other people have.

But if you don't mind, what was September like? I mean, just

leading up to it and everything. I mean, obviously,

2020 canceled 2020 moved from June to September. You know, I

don't think I had been more excited to go into a run. And

you know, it was Railbird into Bonnarooo than into Moon River.

And to go into that run, I don't think I had ever been so

excited. And I knew we were, there were a lot of challenges

that we were going to be facing for all of our events. I mean,

just coming out of, you know, the pandemic, the way we did,

and how do you, you know, everything was changing. And

you could feel fan frustration because, you know, we're

having, you know, we're giving real time information on stuff.

And for some people, they liked what we were saying. Some

people didn't. I mean, I think that, you know, it kind of goes

with that political environment. But going in, I had that zest

of so ready, so ready to do a lot of it. And just being at

home, I think, I think even my wife and family were like,

you've been home too long. You got to go. And so the Jones and

just to get out there and be on site and feel it. I think one

way I physically did it as I went out to the farm first, did

some work out there, then went to Lexington to do Railbird,

then came back, of course, to the farm and then ended up to

Chattanooga. So, you know, even coming after, you know, it was

the biggest Railbird we ever did there. And it was a great

event. We had some stumbles that needed to be corrected.

So back to September for a second, how close was it to

being a guest? How close do you think it actually could have

been? I think a lot closer than people realize. We built it. It

was built. It was ready to go. The challenge was for those of

us that are, you know, saw Manchester Salty and Bonnarooo

Salty, we knew 04. And knowing the amount of rain that we had

in 04, yeah, exactly. I was there. Knowing the amount of

rain we had in 04 and understanding what that did to

the property and what that did to the experience, what that

did all over the place, it was going to be worse.

I think you just hit a point that I totally forgot about.

Explain what it did to the property because I had to pay a

kid $50 to pull me out of a mud pit. And this was just a

random kid from the neighborhood. Yeah. And I think,

Jeff, you're going to say it, but I know we talked about it. I

talked about it is people don't understand. They see a mud

puddle and they think it's just a mud puddle. They don't

understand what 80,000 people walking through that mud puddle

does to it over a day or two, right? But yeah, that's a great

question. What I mean, what were you thinking? What we

lovingly call the back 60 and seeing how we had changed some

things up operationally. And even if we wouldn't have

changed up things operationally, that, you know, that honestly,

that didn't matter. There was so much rain. I mean, I'd have

to go back and look at, you know, Tennessee records, but I

think during that span, I think that had to have been like the

wettest timeframe, like on record period. It was just an

immense amount of rain. And what would happen? The ground was

so soft. You put any weight. And when I say anyway, I'm talking

like a human foot, you've just now created a mess and the

could we have gotten everybody in? Maybe, but the amount of

disruption mud, just everything, one, it would have destroyed

the grounds to everyone would have been stuck. And there no

one would have been getting out of it. And it would have been,

it would have been a safety issue. And I think that's the

other talk about some bad headlines afterwards. Oh, it

would have been, I mean, like, I mean, heck, we talked about

everything I referenced tomorrow world before. And we all know

what happened there. I think it would actually don't think I

know it would have been worse than that. And it is not at a

fall. It's Mother Nature, you know, she, she, she won in that

level. So when, when people think, you know, like you asked

me like how close we got the amount of brain power that went

into every possible thing from opening up refund windows to

shifting things around, do we, you know, not open a day and

open up a day later in order to like let the sun come in. I

would say every single plausible and even non plausible option

was put on the table, some executed and done to give us a

shot because no one, no one, no one on that team, even the

people who were slogging it out, like actually getting, you

know, just dirty muddy gross, wanted to bring it down.

When you make a call like that, how many people are in the

room, batting ideas around?

I mean, you know, you bring in the brain trust, you know, it's

a small group, but it's, you know, you're bringing the people

who specialize and know certain things, because as you know,

it's like a ripple effect. Everything is affected. So like,

how does this impact food vendors? Can they get shipments

or, you know, can they get their shipments in to get stuff

done? Can we service porta potties? Can we all those

different operational pieces factor into it? And so you

solve one problem, but you have to make sure you didn't just

create three more. And so it's a small team, but you got the

best in the business in terms of trying to figure it out and

share that collective knowledge of what happens to the property

when it gets wet, and then what is needed to be serviced to

make things, you know, take place.

Did anybody in the brain trust disagree?

No.

Okay. Totally unanimous.

Totally unanimous. I think we, there were some that, you know,

wanted to try and push it, but it's a safety issue. I mean, it

comes down to, you just can't, you can't do that anymore.

Like, I don't think you can take those types of risks anymore.

It's not worth it to do it from a standpoint of, of destroying

the brand and, and what has been built over 20 years. So, you

know, could you have ramrodded it in there? Maybe, but then,

then you're potentially killing it for the next 20 years. And

is that worth it? And again, I go back to just safety and

experience. And if everyone has a crap experience, like it's

just, you weigh that and it's just, it's just not, not worth

it.

I think that's where that salty thing comes. I mean, that's a,

you were there in 2004, Brad and I were in fork and Louisville,

you know, with, when the gust NATO or whatever the heck that

was came off the river. And, you know, I remember you running

down the, running towards the stage, get everybody out of

here. Yep.

I'll never, I'll never forget Sam Smith. Poor Sam Smith comes

out and he says, hello Louisville. And then three seconds later,

good night.

So, I mean, you've seen all those kinds of things. Yeah.

And it's, it's fun. I, you know, being, you know, in my limited

time right now in this position to see the salty folks and

making some of the decisions. And it's kind of interesting to,

like with the Caribbean and able to work. One of the benefits

is one, we've got indoors as well as, you know, doing an outdoor

pool deck, but knowing that so many things are so close, some

of the hops that you do or port stops, you could really do in

like a couple of hours. So they're just out doing donuts in

the, you know, in the ocean, like tooling around, but what it

does is it allows you to have time so they can see storm

fronts and stuff coming through and like go around things. And

so from that fan experience out of stuff, there is more control

and being able to watch some of this stuff firsthand and learn,

you know, how, you know, how my colleagues and stuff like that

navigate that is, is fascinating to watch because it really is.

Like it's, it's just a completely different beast. And some

things you have control over some things, of course, you don't

let me ask along those lines then, cause on our last show, we

had gotten an email from Bonnarooo about the changes that have

been made, paving some of the roads, some changes to the, what

do they call it? Stormwater and that sort of thing. So you

haven't been gone that long. I assume you probably have a pretty

good idea. We haven't been on the farm in three years. What

sort of things changes do you know of, or do you think have

happened along those lines? I mean, you guys have been very

good and we laugh about it. You know, I've written about it. You

plant grass, nobody, you know, cares about planting grass,

except for Bonnarooo people or shade and those sorts of things.

So, you know, for the veterans, what sort of things do you think

have happened to the farm up there? You know, I haven't seen

the, you know, I know there was probably more stuff that's been

done since, since September in regards to, to improvements. So

I'd be kind of curious to see certain things, but a lot of

things like people never got to see are, you know, like, well, I

guess people wouldn't see production road, but production

road being paved. I mean, that's the paved road. That is a

glory. Hallelujah. Jesus. Praise your name. God. It is. It is

glorious. Like, so when I was down there, like I would do, I

would do kind of runs. Like I found like a good three mile

loop that I would do just to go for a run and get some exercise

in. And yeah, there's a good part of running off. But when

they were talking about the paved road, just, just to make

sure when they talk about the paved roads, they're not talking

about a paved road through center. You're talking about the

paved roads around in production road and down to like the

campsites, right? Correct. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. See, I was

worried. Me and Barry argued about this last week, but you

just don't pave a road through center. You just don't do that.

Your feet have to touch the ground and it cannot be through

asphalt. Yeah. But you want to be able to service things where

you have your heavy equipment and things like that, that, that

do differently. And there's always been work done regarding

like drainage and like, how do you, how do you, you know, map

certain things out to get water so that, you know, things can

drain and the ground can rehab quickly, where certain things

are positioned. There was a lot of thought. And I think, you

know, take the benefit of that amount of rain is, you know,

for some of that group, you know, they're new or they're

newer to the property. So they got to see the worst, you know,

I mean, what oh four to 2021, like look at that span of years

that we had never experienced something like that ever again.

So there is now another, you know, there's now a new brain

trust that has, that has now seen what weather can do and

therefore impact some of the decision-making because, you

know, we didn't own the property at oh four. So the ability to

make certain changes couldn't be happened, but now that, you

know, that team or, you know, the, the, the more, the, the

recent team can got to see a lot of that, I think, you know, it

makes it easier case to say why you should do something when

you're like,

Yeah.

You can make it happen.

To be, to be clear, oh four was one of the worst experiences

I've ever been a part of. I literally said, I will never

come back to this place. I loathed it. The literally the

next year, the, the girlfriend, then eventually wife, the

girlfriend at the time looked at me and she said, why are we

not going to Bonnarooo? It looks incredible. I said, I will

never ever go back to that hell hole again, because that's

what to your point. It was so bad. The user experience was

so bad. And if I will always give Bonnarooo credit for it,

it's a lot like Apple. Apple understands user experience and

user interface. And that is the most important part of their

entire operation. And Bonnarooo just has always done that and

excelled at that. So, you know, it must have been a very

difficult decision in September, but a worthwhile one. With

that being said, how, this is what you do for a living. What

is the most important thing when you're trying to communicate

even basic information, hard to deal with information with a

brand voice? How, what are you trying to do there? I think it's

authenticity. You know, it is, it is being, you know, heck,

it's one of the, you know, the, the things about stay true to

Rue. And, and I, and I think that honestly extends into

everything. So every event, everything that, you know, I, I

have my hands in, I think of what that, what it, what it

means for that specific event and what do they need to hear

from you? And I think that's the, the, the, the, the

biggest thing that makes it better. The, the challenge is so

many people want to believe they're experts and think they've

got the information that can counter, counterbalance the

truth. And, you know, if someone comes in and says, you know,

I've been to 17 Bonnarooo's or something like that, it's like,

yeah, but you're a fan. Like you, you aren't in the back room

making decisions. And that, you know, that again, again, that

is, that is a challenge. And I think that's the biggest

challenge. And I think that's the biggest challenge for people

who are, who are, who are, who are, who are, who are, who are

engaged in the message boards and things like that for, for a

lot of events, just spiral down. It's like, well, I know. And

it's like, actually you don't. And then do you jump in like as,

as an expert, like, do you, do you say like you're a hundred

percent wrong? And I know because I signed the check on that

I'm not a fan of the message boards or, you know, comment

sections, whatever.

Have you engaged on a Reddit or a message board? Have you done

it?

Every time I do. I regret it. I have, and it mostly is a

lot of times it's like, let it play out and your people that are

grounded in reality will typically come, come to defense

and help squash it. Sometimes you utilize there are other

influencers or taste makers to provide them the correct

information and allow that voice to, because I think at times,

you know, if I go in there and say something, I'm paid to be

there and say something like even, even if I've got the right

information, correct information, I can, you know, give you the

full timeline of where it may be. You may not listen to me.

You're like, oh, he's just towing a company line or, you

know, he's just all about profit. Nah.

You know, that comes out of that. So do you, do you have a

conversation with someone that, you know, that there's that

trust and they can be a tastemaker to say like, Hey,

for the facts, you know, do what you want with them. Here they

are.

And allow and allow that to kind of happen, but it is, it's

that authenticity. It is.

It's a challenge. I mean, it really is, you know, that some

of the things I think that probably get me more and I know

you guys as a standup, amazing journalists and members of the

media, you're actually going to tell far jokes on the radio.

I am no journalist. Yeah. But you're going to fact check.

You're not just going to throw something out there and say, and

say that, you know, this is it because you know, Bob down the

street told me, so you're going to dig in, you're going to ask

for comments. You're going to find out where things come from.

And I, you know, I never, I never want to say anything bad

about the press, but today in these times, there are more of

just stuff getting out.

That is just blatantly not true. And it's like, did you even ask

the question? Because if you would have, if you would have just

texted me, I would have been like, no, that's wrong. Do I have a

comment? No, but I can tell you that that's wrong. Like that is

factually inaccurate. And that's, that's frustrating as well as

because when you're combating that stuff, again, you're not

going to win.

I'll say the thing about Bonnarooo and, and you've been a huge

part of it. And I'm not saying that cause you're, you're

sitting right here.

You guys have always seemed to approach it that we're not just

worried about this year. We're worried about next year and the

next and the next. And that, that's a different attitude than a

lot of people, you know, have. And it makes a huge difference

like grass, like bathrooms, like water runoff, you know, we all

laugh about that every year I write it, but I'm like, that's

long-term thinking. And Brad, Brad said it with the last time

we were there when we walked in at night and saw the lights in

the trees, you know, we just went crazy about that kind of

thing. But that's that little detail that, you know, for the

first timers would have not realized it was new, but for

veterans it was like, Oh, that's a really cool improvement.

Well, I mean, look, it's those little details that as a guy

that, you know, runs a radio brand, which is definitely not a

music festival. It's those little details that when I watch

other radio stations do drive me nuts, absolutely drive me

nuts. I'll give you an example, literally over my two

shoulders. Jeff probably has an example like this in the

Bonnarooo farm, but this was the logo that was done before me.

That's the logo I did there. That typeface drives me bat

shit crazy because it's completely inconsistent. It's

crooked. It drives me nuts. People do this all the time. And

when I see somebody pay attention to details like Bonnarooo,

right. By the way, I fixed it with the new logo, just mind.

Okay. But when I see Bonnarooo, the other one is still there.

Well, that's because it's, you know, what are you going to do?

I can't, I can't solve every stupid problem. The, but when

Bonnarooo gets the little details, right. Like that, it

makes me feel really happy because I've invested all of

this time and energy into a brand that cares and that, and

that knows that the details matter to the point that I was

trying to sort of insinuate with the, with the question. It

does feel as though the brand's communication has been troublesome

at best, spotty at best. And I wonder if there are, you know,

advice being given, if they are aware of stuff like that, if

it is in the consciousness, or are they just trying to hold on

and survive and just make it work for right now?

Obviously I'm not in that room anymore and I can't necessarily

speak to that.

That's why I freely asked you because now you're unshackled.

I can say that I, you know, the people that I left that are,

that are still there slogging it out and putting it to, it's

still some of the most passionate people in the business.

And it is.

There's a lot fewer of them, right?

No, there's, there's more than, I mean, you know, that have

had, you know, 20 years. No, yeah, there's very few that have

lasted long, but I mean, there's still, I would say a lot of

people are still within it are still, you know, veterans of the

business, you know, that are from that standpoint, understand

what it takes to pull off a large scale event, every event being

different, but the group that is behind it and the group that is

still pushing forward on it.

Some of the most passionate, they care, they genuinely care and

want to do what's right. And that comes from the top down and the

bottom up. I mean, it's, it's, it's a whole everybody.

I think they understand and respect the power, you know, that they,

they yield or wield within that brand specifically.

And there's a lot of care and attention done to it.

You know, I think we're all navigating, you know, coming out of the

pandemic, especially as we ramp back up in the live event world, you

know,

The pressure and the desire to go, go, go and do more.

And some of that can make you tired.

And I think that's a big part of the, you know,

the

community is that we're all human.

We all make mistakes.

And that's going to happen.

But I, you know, again, not in those rooms, but.

I do know.

A lot of the people who are still there, obviously, and I can't say

enough positive things about the group.

That is there.

That is making the decisions that is, you know,

doing everything they can to, to make that event and to make every

event they're a part of special. And it's, it is a.

It's a huge, huge thing.

And I think the community is something that you see within the industry

that, you know,

I think for those that are salty and have been in it for quite some

time.

That caring attention is there because you don't do an event.

As a one-off like that is when you go in doing something.

The intent is to create a legacy on it and to build a brand and to

definitely the goal going in. And that's, you know, I can speak to that even now, as we're

looking at destination stuff, as we approach our partners in terms of artists or, or not even

artists, but like how we want to do things. It's not about one event. Like we're already thinking,

this is how it's going to evolve over the next five years. And if we're not in that, if we're not

together, some paths go in that place, then we need to have a conversation if this is going to be the

right thing to go, because you have to build these things for the future. You have to take those right

steps in order to make it, to maintain longevity. So as somebody I absolutely, absolute trust,

would you consider and understanding that you are sort of biased because these are very close

friends and people that you care about and, and think that are doing, you know, wonderful work.

And I don't deny any of that, just be totally honest and real with me. You feel as though,

even though there's been a lot of change, it has really adjusted. The whole structure has

almost been completely upended. You totally feel confident that it is going to be the same feeling

walking in there this year than it was five years ago, four years, three years ago.

I do. And where I go with that is it's still incumbent upon the fans. I think the delivery

of and fan mentality and how people come together is different. I mean, let's be honest, none of us

here, we're not young anymore. You know, this stuff's not meant for us. A lot of these events

across the board are built for, you know, for the youth in a lot of ways. So that is the one thing

that I did. You can't look through that lens because what was important to you and I five years

ago, probably not the same thing that's important to us now. So that is going to change. The musical

tastes are going to change. So it would be wrong to kind of look through the lens like five years

ago because it is a constant torch passing for an event. If it's going to maintain it, if it's going

to stay like one thing the entire time, it's never going to stand the test of time because

things change. Like you get married, you've got kids, you've got life responsibilities and I can't

go do this or I'll come back to it. And you have to understand there are certain pieces that will

maintain that are still a part of that soul. But it's not for, I don't want to say it's not targeted

to you anymore. And as long as you're willing to understand that yeah there's going to be kids

there. But you know five years ago, ten years ago you were a kid too, you know from that standpoint.

So that's the part that I think has changed. But from that aspect I do think it will maintain. But

it's not just incumbent upon the producers. It is the fans maintaining that spirit and that

understanding of what this event is or what any event is for that matter and keeping it going.

Because if the fans choose they don't want to, then you know that's kind of when you make that

decision of do you keep doing the event or not. Can you in any way sort of quantify or qualify

how the 20-year run has gone? I mean from what you maybe envisioned it in 2002 to

to where it is. Has it been a straight line? Has it been you know were there moments where you

were because there was for me and I know when it started it had this hippie Jamfest label

and it took a lot of hits early on when people said it's lost its soul. It's changed. But having

talked to you and Ashley that was always sort of the plan was you know you brought that group in

first because they would camp. And the idea was to add VIP and nicer you know all the things that

that you've added but you can't do that all at once monetarily. You didn't own the farm so

that's what I mean by I mean is there a piece of paper somewhere in somebody's desk that says

here's where we want to be in 2022 and how close did you get I guess is what I'm asking.

Oh god that's a great question. I think for the first several it was just like we just hope we

get to do it again type of thing and you know I wouldn't say there was a long-term vision goal

at that point. So I think it was just a matter of if we could make it five years that's awesome.

And I think probably starting around maybe 04-05 it was like oh shit they're still coming. Like

we've really got something here. Making a past 04 you're just like oh all right. I came back at

05. I think really that long-term planning started to become more evident once the farm was purchased.

Okay and I think that's where it's gone. So you know has it every year you're always kind of taking

bits and chunks off and you know there are definitely plans that you're going after and

sometimes you know when you've got a good one you know it allows you to do you know take more of

those chunks off. Other times you can't. So I would say yes. I think you know we did get there. Now

was it maybe that path that we all thought we're going to go down? No. And there's definitely

peaks and valleys in that. And I think we've taken we've always swung and I would say that is

we've always tried and no one can accuse us or accuse you know the groups over the years

for not going for it and swinging and trying new things. Some things landed awesome and other

things fell completely flat and that man base was the quickest to call you. I'd be like you

you definitely missed the mark on that one. Would you call missing the mark a big square

that you walked into? I don't know what you're talking about, Brad. Okay got it.

I was well I was saying that's all I could say. Yeah somebody walked through. I mean I think I

know what you're talking about. Roll Like a Rock Star didn't work. You guys took that you know you

adapt or change it right? I mean I think you said that three or four years ago and yeah you find

out what works right? I mean and again things change. It's like yeah that program was fantastic

but when you own something is there a way to do it better? And you know some of the some of the

the newer faces that have come in and I'll call them out by name Tuba is some of his approach

in terms of asking why and has reframed a lot of what you know even the way I approach certain

things sometimes is has been fantastic. You know I think it gave a real like injection of looking

at how we do things instead of saying like that's the way we've always done it. It's like why? Is

there a better way to do it? Yeah like let's look at a better way. Let's do the best way we can do

it. Not that's the way we've always done it. Now if the way we always know is the best way to do it

because we learned that that's the only way that's going to work. That's one thing but question it

and figure things out and that group has I think has always been great about at really questioning

what works what doesn't. Again you got to fail to succeed in a lot of ways and so I think this

piece happens and happens across the board. Well so it's sort of to Barry's question. What was

something that you never ever got to finish or do that was on the list that you said oh man

if we could do blank and you never got it? This is going to sound you know you talk about grass

and things being the thing sewer. Oh a sewer. Smarter toilets are a good thing. Being able to

to handle and address the wastewater issue. I think that's one of those things that to me is

that's one that I really you know I put a lot of time and energy on personally that I wanted to see

a solution out of that because I think that could have been a game changer in terms of how and you

know I think it's going to be something that's you know it's going to be that you talk about white

whales that's the one that is so many times it's been within grasp and you got to make those

decisions but yeah that one I think is a big one and you start you know and I would say other

pieces you know specifically for the farm is really thinking about that investment of how we get

or how they, not we anymore, how traffic being addressed and being able to because you start

looking at the pain points and I think that was a kind of a shift in focus even you know last couple

years over there is like what are the biggest pain points and what can we do what kind of time and

energy can we put toward addressing it one of the things I think that shifted a big way is guest

services and looking at how do we take care of the thing or how you know how the fans taking care of

so like from wayfinding to like those types of things again it's grass you know it's not putting

you know rolling stones in the main stage or something along those lines it's those little

things that truly make the experience better and special and I say that's as part of what's really

exciting about you know what I do what I'm doing now in six minutes the scale is just different I

don't have to think about 120,000 people on a farm you know with with staff artists everything

else I get to think about a ship that's contained and what are these microcosms of experience and

knowing that really one piece of signage can make a difference in a lot of different ways

and having my mindset come in because I'm you know I feel blessed and lucky to have the experience

that I had and now get to take that into this new phase and you know challenge ask a lot of those

why questions for those some of those who have been salty and to say like well let's look at it

this way see if it if it changes the guest experience in a positive way and that you talk

about maybe what gets me up in the morning right now and gets me really excited and keeps me up

at night are the opportunities right now that that that are there to really think differently

about how we create these immersive experiences understand I get to try things in a different way

you know the the scale the economies of scale are completely different Jeff Jeff your answer your

answer is exactly why this show exists I mean nothing makes me more excited than your answer

being sewage and I'm solely honest about that because the moment that me and Barry were walking

backstage and I noticed the the fact that the the core the the lines were in pvc pipes and

I said how many hundreds of yards of pvc do they have here and to think that that somebody put it

together to put it over to the side so that people weren't tripping over it that's when the show

started yeah that's when we started I started looking at the whole thing differently I started

looking at what you do now at a little a little bit differently how do these things start getting

put together and the answer being sewage is just another line of you know us well I know I may be

like one of the very few people who are thinking that by the way but yeah those are the those are

the things that I know that's the thing you've you've stressed I think since we've been talking

since I've known you is it's not just the act on the stage it starts with the ticket experience

you know did I have a hassle buying my ticket because if I did I already got a bad taste in my

mouth you know did my ticket show up on time did I have a problem did I did I get to my campsite on

time you know or in a in a reasonable amount of those are the things when you leave that you

remember you know the the um the the great show helps and it will overcome huge in some cases but

if you left there and it's like man I didn't have any problem with bathrooms that's a good day yeah

yeah yeah I mean it is I got in and out with no traffic it is it is pretty remarkable you know what

I got to see the Rolling Stones of Bonnarooo unfortunately I shit myself um I just

because I because the porta potty was full yeah exactly what are you going to remember when you

go home uh-huh hell the show don't remember I uh show that's another problem man Jeff I again we

say this to you every time and it's not just blow and smoke up your ass I didn't know you the minute

that you came on the show years ago and fell in love with you because you are exactly the way that

you speak as a brand you're authentic um you are uh incredibly gifted at what you do and you're

first and foremost you're really generous so being as generous as you are with your time it's it's

as appreciated as you can ever imagine so thank you so much for uh hanging out with this and

walking us through the new property the the former property uh and I hope the move goes well thank

you when you guys uh invite someone to come join us uh jump on a ship I hey I'm ready I'm ready

you name the time the place I'm in the start sussing out this out this pod this podcast concept

I love it I love it yeah yeah the the less work I have to do the better uh Barry will testify I

well it is work uh but you just could be in a destination yeah I'm in I'm in if I get to

hang out with you two guys shirtless do you count me in tropical destination and Barry Courter that

is uh sight for sore eyes I love it Jeff thank you you let us know we're there excellent thanks Jeff

see you soon appreciate it