Why Bourbon & Beyond Might Have the Best Lineup of 2026

just the name some that I would have to see.

Then there's a list twice that size

that I'd be pretty happy to see.

I haven't even talked about a headliner yet.

My question is, when are we gonna finally pack it up

and go to Louisville and go to this thing?

We have been, our jaw's been on the floor

three years in a row looking at these lineups.

Louisville ain't that far.

It sucks we're having another year of

which is the next festival to have a better lineup

than Bonnarooo.

Welcome back to the What Podcast.

We are tentatively calling this a road episode

and it's gonna be a stretch, but I'm gonna make it work

as best that I can.

Well, it started that way.

Yeah, you'll understand here in a little bit,

but Brian has been traveling.

That's Brian, I'm Barry.

I just got back from traveling to South Georgia

and I can confirm boys before I even introduced Russ,

Atlanta traffic sucks.

Yes, very much.

Every way possible.

Yeah, you didn't take the,

did you take the 285 around about or did you go right through?

Yeah, see, I don't know what the best decision there is

because neither work well.

We've always been told drug goes straight through.

The best decision is whichever one you don't take.

If you take 285, it's gonna be backed up.

If you take, go through 75, it's gonna be backed up.

I did wanna mention that other than just,

so you know what my weekend was like, like nobody cares.

But when I was down there,

when I put all my stuff in the bedroom,

my daughter, Grace, who you both know,

who'd been to Bonnarooo many times,

worked for AC Entertainment back in the day,

bought me a photo album of Danny Clinch photos,

which is awesome to begin with.

Danny is one of the people I think, Rush, you can confirm.

I said, that's one of the guys I want to have as a guest

in my dream world and we managed to get him on.

And the photo album is amazing,

but it also has Jim James on the cover,

which was like a double, you know, great thing for me.

So pretty awesome.

Yeah, so that was,

what did you say photo album?

Like we're talking like a coffee table book kind of thing.

Coffee table book, got fold outs

of I think Eddie Vedder's even one of the centerfolds.

I'll show it to you.

No, I mean, for years, Clinch, I mean, he followed,

he was a 90s photog and he was Pearl Jam's

and Eddie Vedder's specific photographer

for many of their years.

And then of course the early years of Bonnarooo,

that was all Clinch.

Bly Mellon back in the day, you know, long gone these days,

but lots of bands I loved, Radiohead,

as he discussed with you guys on the show

two and a half years ago.

So yeah, Danny Clinch touches a lot of generations

and a lot of different genres of music.

It's pretty impressive stuff.

I have to say probably Springsteen is his most famous,

you would argue, Vedder of course,

but Spring, for people who just don't know,

I mean, the picture you've seen of Bruce Springsteen

in the lather walking down the street

with the snowflakes all around him, that's Danny.

And he told us on the show about how that happened.

I think that was what he, he was waiting,

he was late or Bruce was late and he was like,

come down this street, blah, blah, blah.

And as he's walking, he takes some pictures

and he's like, okay, I'm done.

I got what I need, but now I have an hour and a half

or whatever it was to kill.

How do I keep taking pictures?

Yeah, I'd put Springsteen on a bigger global level

than Eddie Vedder for sure.

So I admit I wasn't familiar with the name, Danny Clinch,

but when I looked up his body of work, I was like,

oh, I know all these pictures.

I've seen every single one of these.

I didn't realize, okay, that's who that was.

Okay, so yeah, even if you don't know the name,

I guarantee you've seen some of these pictures.

Yeah, well, thank you for teeing that up

because that's my Danny, I have met him

even before we talked, I was outside of media

and our friend Ken Weinstein,

who we've talked about many, many times,

friend of the show, the originator of Never Not Great,

was outside talking to some guy who was taking pictures

of a toddler in the media area and I walked up

and he said, hey, Barry, you know Danny?

And I'm like, hi, Danny, nice to meet you.

I walked back inside and our friend Nate Gale,

photographer for the What Podcast for many, many years,

said, Danny Clinch is here, Danny Clinch is here.

I was like, I didn't wanna act stupid.

Danny Clinch is here, Danny Clinch is here.

Like a little kid on Christmas morning,

he's a big Clinch guy as a photographer himself, so yeah.

So you know me, I'm like, oh cool, nice.

And then I looked him up and I'm like,

I just met that guy.

Oh my God.

It's an awesome book, I'll share it with you guys,

I'll send some pictures.

Obviously I'm mentioning it now

because I love Danny's work, but also I'm hoping

to get him to sign it one day

because it's really, really cool.

Yeah, that can happen.

I mentioned the road, Brian,

you just got back from Las Vegas

where you were visiting with another friend of the show,

another regular on the show, Beth.

Yeah, I'll go through it pretty quickly.

It was a fun little short action packed fast weekend

for Valentine's Day, Beth Thorpe,

who does some photography for this show

and for many other outlets, Pacific Northwest

and with the Nashville.com.

And it was lightning fast,

but time stood still a little bit more

than it normally does for me, which is amazing

because normally time just is disappearing out of my life.

And Beth loves Vegas and she doesn't drink anymore

and has not had a drinking issue in her life

and it's just come and gone,

but she doesn't really drink much,

unlike myself and maybe all of us

and every person listening to this show.

And so she doesn't really drink,

never done any drugs and doesn't gamble.

And so it's, well, you're like, Vegas, let's go.

Well, I love this too,

but I didn't really connect the dots.

It's all the old aesthetic of the mid-century phenomenon

of Las Vegas, downtown, old Las Vegas,

old downtown, I guess I call it,

Fremont Street for the most part.

And boy, it is neat, like all that neon

and all those old signs and all that stuff

you remember seeing in movies and stuff

and you lived through the era, Barry,

and whether it looked interesting or not to you or not,

it certainly was different than anything else.

So that was really cool.

When I was there for the dead,

two years ago now, almost two years ago,

we were at the strip where there's pyramids

and fire flying out of the sky and water fixtures

and just endless new development.

Now impressive, to be sure, impressive new development.

The spheres over there,

the new football stadium for the Raiders.

I saw where they're gonna put

the new baseball stadium for the A's,

but boy, that place sucks.

Never wanna be there again, it's Disneyland for adults.

Over the other side, we had a big time, a lot of fun.

Stayed at an old casino, hotel,

one of the oldest ones or not the oldest one

from that side of town and maybe the entire town.

El Cortez is the name of it.

A lot of 1940s gangster ties.

A lot of that's lore, I think.

A lot of tall tales.

It's the, not to interrupt, but forgive me,

it's the Godfather, the Mo Green, the whole, yeah.

We're going to, we're taking over Las Vegas.

The mob's out, we're coming.

Well, there are ties.

It's not like this is all made up.

Oh no, no, that's what made Vegas.

I know, I know.

I'm not questioning the story,

except the story's really started to get taller

and taller and taller, you know?

Like, eh, okay.

Yeah, that room right over there.

Okay, sure, whatever guys.

I'll play along.

What a story.

That is incredible.

Al Capone slipped in that very bed twice.

Oh my God, your room is this room.

Yeah, okay, whatever.

But no, I loved it, loved it.

The aesthetic was gorgeous.

Fremont is just a electrified version of Bourbon Street.

It's just for partying.

And so that got old pretty quick.

So we hit the road, rented a car,

ran around, went to Hoover Dam just because.

Been there before, but loved to see it again

on a beautiful day.

And then the last day on Valentine's Day Day,

we were trying to get out of town

and drive around the desert out there is really fun.

I don't like to drive, but just driving in that,

and you can see Vegas everywhere you go.

You're an hour away and like, oh, hey,

there's a city because there's nothing else.

There's nothing else there.

Yeah, and it's flat.

It's flat and it's just rolling desert.

So it's such a cool dynamic.

The whole time you never get Vegas out of your sight,

but we're 60 miles away.

It's just something I've never really seen before.

But quickly, and then wrap it up here

because we didn't do a whole lot as far as shows

and all those things, which we can come back to.

But the Valley of Fire we went to, and it is gorgeous.

If you're on YouTube or watching us on Spotify,

it is mesmerizing how cool this area is.

And just to give you an idea,

if you're listening to audio only right now,

it's 46,000 acres is this state park.

The very first state park that was designated

in Nevada in 1968.

It's not open in the summer

because it's just too hot there.

It's only a fall and spring attraction,

but they've filmed many movies there.

Two of them that would be most well known to anybody

who possibly might generationally fit into our demographic

is Star Trek Generations in the 90s.

I never watched that show, but sound, you know,

on planets and stuff.

That's where they recorded that or filmed some of that.

And then the Mars scene,

which I had to go back and refresh my memory

from Total Recall, the Arnold Schwarzenegger movie

in the 80s pre-Terminator.

So before he, Terminator 2, I mean.

So before he really skyrocketed,

Total Recall was really popular in those days.

And so they filmed some of that there too.

So that was wild and really, really, really fun.

And that was pretty much the weekend,

but didn't really have any time for some shows,

even though there were plenty to be seen.

I was gonna ask, because during our pre-show meeting,

which technically was me trying to get through Atlanta

and it didn't work, but we had some conversations

and I asked that very question and you said,

one of the ones that was in residence and everybody,

I think people know in Vegas,

one of the things they do are these residencies.

Everybody from who Usher, I mean, Wayne Newton's the one

that comes to my Dolly Parton.

Yeah, they do these.

But the one you, what'd you say,

thought about for a minute till you saw the price

was Def Leppard.

Yeah.

Def Leppard, they were doing a residency

at one of the casinos I don't even know where,

probably on the strip.

And I thought, you know, Def Leppard every night,

but right before the grunge movement destroyed 80s hair,

I was 12.

And I mean, all the 80s hair bands

have roughly the same story.

Smells like teen spirit hits.

And then our career crashes within a year.

That and Spinal Tap crushed them,

just destroyed all of them.

Well, yes, yes, because of the, yeah, of course.

So I was a big Def Leppard guy as a 10, 11, 12 year old.

Pyromania, hysteria, adrenaline, high and dry,

all those old records.

I know them very, very well.

More than a 10 year old at that time

you would have ever expected.

So I would love to see Def Leppard,

but we're talking 150, $160 a night.

And you know, it wasn't gonna happen.

Well, after that conversation, as I said,

I had time to think.

And so at that time I would have been at the paper.

I was a young journalist working for the paper,

looking to write entertainment.

So one of my jobs was to go and write reviews

for these concerts.

So I got to see all of the Def Leppard concerts

that came through here.

Pyromania, hysteria, all that stuff.

As a fan, I was more into the new way.

Punk stuff, didn't like the spandex hair stuff.

But I can tell you the Def Leppard shows were awesome.

They were so much fun.

I might be biased because I was such a fan,

but I feel like Def Leppard was a far more polished,

better rock band than a lot of those 80s bands.

Like Poison?

Name it.

I mean, come on, Def Leppard's way

on another level than Poison.

They were way better, but in my mind,

they got lumped into that.

And I had to look it up.

Rick Allen, I mean, I remember the car crash.

I remember when that news hit.

The drummer who lost his arm.

The drummer who was driving his Stingray way too fast,

lost his arm, and then created a way to use a double pedal

with his drum to mimic what he had.

And it's interesting because I can remember

the stories being like, is it gonna be a gimmick?

And them, the band saying, that's not what we want.

We are serious musicians.

So that was sort of the mindset I had

when I went and saw one of their shows.

I'm like, oh man, this is gonna be another hair band.

It was incredible.

I've been a fan.

I have all of their vinyl.

I love Def Leppard.

If you can see them, definitely see them.

They rocked really good.

And they had it, but when we were talking

record store day releases the other week,

they have a record store day release this year

for their album, Slang, that they released in 1996.

And it was the absolute dunzo gonzo moment

for Def Leppard until the rebirth of the nostalgia play

because it was awful and it sounded like grunge music,

but really bad, really, really, really bad.

And it was probably a record company push,

like, hey, we need a different sound.

It was awful.

And I'm guessing that whatever the years are now,

it's now part of the record store day release.

And I'm sure super fans are like,

remember this piece of crap?

Well, I now have it in my collection.

So, but yeah, so I thought about it long and hard.

And then quickly the Sphere has this long residency

of just a IMAX style show,

for lack of a better way of putting it, of Wizard of Oz.

I actually really liked the movie Wizard of Oz

from my childhood, but for about 230 or so odd dollars

a ticket and a 50 or $60 Uber ride

to the other side of town,

and then drinks and whatever else there,

we're talking 20% more than my hotel for the weekend cost.

I don't need to do Wizard of Oz.

You know how it ends.

I know exactly how it ends.

If you don't call me.

I know exactly how it ends.

I know exactly.

So, but anyway, that was a wonderful time in Vegas.

Absolutely.

Beth loved it as well too.

Let's take a quick break and we'll be right back.

All right.

And welcome back.

I wanted to give a quick thanks again to John

who joined Russ and I while Brian was in Las Vegas.

John, thanks for jumping in John.

Appreciate it.

To talk about the where and Russ,

I think you and I talked about when it was over

and I've reconfirmed my thoughts.

I did not expect a conversation about the where lineup

to have that much meat, but it did.

It did.

Yeah, he was a great guest.

He knew what he was talking about

and he was pretty well received.

I'm sure we will have him back on at some point.

Yes.

Especially being a Chattanooga local.

I mean, that's pretty cool too.

Actually, I wish he wasn't.

I wish he was from like Bangkok or something exotic

so he could claim it.

We didn't pick him.

We didn't know he was from Chattanooga,

but he was terrific and he did know his stuff,

does know his stuff and as I teased him,

the lawyers are drawing up paperwork.

He will be back as a semi-regular, I hope if he'll do it.

Yeah, I appreciate it.

But he was great.

I was especially intrigued at his idea

that Bonnarooo has maybe strayed from their lane

by getting too many different types of EDM acts.

I just found that fascinating.

And I know Brian, that has to hit you

because you've been there since the beginning

when everybody said, man,

they're not a jam band festival anymore.

Now he's like, man, they're not the EDM festival

that I grew up with.

He admitted it.

I mean, I think-

Well, and because the jam is the same way,

they started venturing out into different types of-

They didn't label them as much as EDM does,

but yeah, absolutely.

That evolution was very, very similar.

It really is striking that that jam and EDM

kind of yin and yang comparison from one era to the next

and how similar they are.

Sorry, EDM people, y'all ain't gonna be there forever

in the way that you want it to be

because that's just how things go with popular music.

Right now it's still sticking, it's still working,

but it does feel like, and I don't know this,

but I have seen people talk about that very thing,

how many different subgenres there are

and then them talking about whether it's good, bad,

right or wrong, I don't know, sorry, or care,

but it's an interesting discussion because that's what,

that's what subgenres do is they argue and debate

about what is and isn't pure

and what is and isn't acceptable.

It's all subjective and it's a fun conversation

as long as you're not a bunch of jerks about it.

It is an immensely fun conversation,

especially as the old man sitting here

and I will tie it all together

because Def Leppard is arguably undeniably a legacy act.

Would you say that the strokes are a legacy act?

I was just thinking this the other day, Barry.

I absolutely was.

I don't remember why exactly,

just because I'm just often thinking about random stuff.

I was thinking as I was breaking down the headliners,

Roof is Still Soul would be great

on nine o'clock on the witch on a Saturday,

not the main thing on Saturday.

Noah Conner would be great if it was the whatever here

and not the main thing on Sunday

and the strokes would be great eight, 17 years ago.

Wait a second, the strokes are the legacy act.

I thought that exactly.

25 years.

Yeah, about 2010, 2010, 2011, 2012.

It feels like when their popularity was really doing this

and so yeah, I mean, we get old fast, Barry.

You told us this a long time ago.

Yeah, thank you.

That's not my point, but actually it was more

and Russ reminded us last week talking to John

about what Rick from Church Boners said,

Bonnarooo, how did he phrase it?

It's always about the kids, we're the ones getting old.

Well, yeah, people who say that Bonnarooo is changing.

No, it's really you who are changing by getting old

and Bonnarooo is forever young is the way he put it.

Yeah, it's a great observation,

which leads us to bourbon and beyond.

Because when I saw that lineup, that's my wheelhouse,

but that's for old people.

It feels like it's everybody's wheelhouse somehow

unless EDM is the only thing you want, right?

If that's the only thing you want, then it's not yours.

Majority of everybody else doesn't want a bunch of EDM,

majority of everybody else wants this kind of stuff.

And it is, they've done it three years in a row,

our eyes are wide open as this thing gets announced.

When you sent it to me, I was like, that's great.

And then when I opened it up again later,

I was like, it's not real.

Cause I'm still pretty convinced

some of these bands don't even exist anymore.

Like the ones that I wanna see, the Adam Ants and the...

Yeah, Adam Ants, like I had to look at this thing five times.

I know they do, squeeze.

I mean, go ahead.

I had to look at it five times to keep getting it done.

I just wrote it all down

cause I didn't have a printer over here this weekend.

I needed that more than ever.

Forget the headliners.

I mean, just run it.

I'm not gonna go super fast.

The further you go down the list.

Yeah.

That whole like four line to 10 line.

Yeah.

My God, that's my playlist.

It's weird it says it's an alphabetical order,

which is not at all.

So I don't know how they do that,

but it just never ends just like it has the last couple years

but Foster's People, Portugal, the Man, Goose, Isabel,

Fling the Lips, War on Drugs, Jet, Cracker,

just the name some that I would have to see.

Then there's a list twice that size

that I'd be pretty happy to see.

I haven't even talked about a headliner yet.

And like it's nuts.

Barry, more of your thoughts.

I just, I don't know.

I mean, it's again, I'm not kidding.

It's like, if you were to come and go through my albums

vinyl that I play a lot.

There's a bunch of them on there.

And I had a list I'm gonna keep looking,

but again, the Adam and the Ant, what's the,

Violet Phemmes.

Oh, Violet Phemmes.

Yeah, Violet Phemmes on there.

That's, there are a few bands that I would leave town for.

As you guys know, Devo was Violet Phemmes would be one.

Violet Phemmes would be one.

Yeah, Violet Phemmes.

I didn't know Violet Phemmes.

Well, actually they played the Caverns not all that long ago.

But I-

That's my point.

I didn't know they were still-

I didn't know they were still banned until they did that.

Lisa Loeb, Joan Jett, infamous string dusters,

Daniel Donato, Our Lady Peace.

I mean, we can just do this for the rest of our lives.

My God.

Plain white tees.

I mean, they were, that's 20 years ago, easily.

Better Than Ezra, St. Paul.

Yeah, yeah, I hear you.

Our buddy St. Paul and the Broken Bones.

Yeah, Better Than Ezra.

County Crows.

And just from a personal-

Is County Crows there?

County Crows is on there.

Oh my God, they are.

Sunday.

County Crows are there.

Just from a personal, cause I thought it was cool

and she was cool, Noah Cyrus, Billy Ray's daughter.

Yeah, Noah on there.

You know, she was great to talk to us at Moon River.

Yes, she was.

Here's the thing though, is that this is years in a row.

That's why I want to get Patrick Whelan from Sobrew,

who is a regular on the show.

He'll be on with us sometime this spring.

He was not available this week.

He's from Louisville and they do,

I don't know what they call bourbon and beyond.

It's not, you know, sober and the bourbon and beyond a roux.

I don't know what they are, sober or roux.

I don't know what the hell they call it.

But anyway, he is gone for many years

and I'd like to get his thoughts and we will,

but Reddit, which is not the best place,

but sometimes it's the only place

to get people's reactions to things.

I read about how the festival itself is not that great.

The logistics, the lines, the issues that you all,

that we all are familiar with seem to be-

Yeah, that's what we talked to with Daniel

that we had on Who Went?

And he was more critical on the infrastructure

and the camping and all that.

Well, it looks like shit.

The lineup can't be beat.

It looks like shit.

If you see a picture of this place,

it's an outdoor convention center on gravel

near some horse tracks, racing tracks.

And it's right next to the airport.

And you're nowhere, like Louisville is a cool city.

Doesn't matter.

You're nowhere near Louisville.

You're nowhere near the city.

No, no, no, you're not.

And the planes are an issue.

Well, I mean, we talked quickly

before we get away from Berber and Beyond.

I talk about my favorite bands on here a lot

and we make jokes about how obsessive I can be

from Oasis to Pearl Jam.

And then I become more of a dead fan

than I ever was in my younger years.

But the band Cracker, David Lowery,

and the old camper van Beethoven connections

and all that stuff from the huge 80s counterculture stuff.

They are my favorite band that aren't the bands

that everybody's heard of.

And they're on this damn lineup.

So it's a-

They were a great bar band, were they not?

Yeah, oh, they're still a good bar band.

You know, that's a whole podcast

and pretty quirky fun story for those who care,

which isn't gonna be most of you out there.

But so that just, this lineup just doesn't end.

It just keeps going.

My question is, when are we gonna finally pack it up

and go to Louisville and go to this thing?

We have been, our jaw's been on the floor

three years in a row looking at these lineups.

Louisville ain't that far.

No, it's still not.

Louisville is one of the easiest drive

as opposed to St. Simon's Island,

which is one of the worst.

Louisville is an easy drive

and it's a great city.

I love Louisville.

If it were the old, the one downtown-

Forecastle.

Forecastle, I'd be all over.

That was the one to go to.

Yeah, this one is not convenient, in my mind.

And they do have camping.

I remember we've talked to somebody.

It seemed to be very primitive the way they have it set up.

So I don't know, maybe we'll talk to Patrick

and we'll crash his house.

If this lineup were downtown at Forecastle, we'd be there.

We should mention, you know, too,

because I think it's interesting.

The headliners are Foo Fighters, Mumford,

Chris Stapleton and Dave Matthews.

I mean, that's a completely different approach

than Bonnarooo, would you not agree?

Yeah, I mean, well, they kind of double headliner

each night, Foo's and Queens, Mumford and Musgraves,

Stapleton and Red Shrey Clay's and Dave Matthews and Hootie.

I mean, you're covering everybody from 35 and up,

age-wise anyway.

Yeah.

I don't know.

I'll tell you the reason I don't run up there.

I've heard, I haven't yet to hear somebody say,

boy, I went to Bourbon and beyond and it was awesome.

I've yet to really hear anybody say that.

They've said, it's good, the music was fun.

I'm glad I went, but this sucked, this sucked,

this sucked, this sucked, this sucked.

It's been a lot of mixed.

And I've heard like, if you don't go VIP for this thing,

you have no chance of getting close to the stage

because of the way they structure the VIP areas.

It's right up front.

I think our friend of the show that we know,

several of them actually,

it's sort of like what you just said, Russ.

If your favorite act, if you get to see an act

that you really want to see and you got good seats

or you paid for VIP, then it's a great festival.

That's kind of the vibe I've been getting.

I mean, I'm only going off a hearsay.

I can't know, I haven't been there, but I don't know.

I can tell that this is not,

it's not a desirable location.

And us so in such in love with the Bonnarooo thing,

the location, the situation, the environment,

it all matters just as much as who's on the stage.

And so if I go and it's a gravel lot

and I can't get around and drinks are a bitch

and lines are awful, I don't give a damn that,

you know, Dave Grohl is screaming into a microphone

for the 50th time.

Looking right at me.

I get it, yeah.

Yeah, no, I get it.

But like Shaky Knees, I mean, that park is amazing.

That's, if I'm going to a city fest, that's what I want.

Well, speaking of Shaky Knees,

I believe this week we should get a lineup.

Oh, that's right.

Maybe by the time this episode is published,

we might have a lineup.

Well, Shaky Knees does it right.

Shaky Knees does it absolutely right.

For a city.

How many of these acts we might see on that?

A city festival is, they just do it right.

And it's such a good rock and roll fest.

So us being a show full of rock and roll guys.

And just before we move on,

just so we can get lots of click and all that,

I think we all three can agree that Dave Matthew sucks.

Are we in agreement or is that just me?

I agree.

However, if you put Dave up there

with Hootie and the Blowfish and Counting Crows,

I'm more likely to stick around for Dave.

I mean, Dave's band is amazing

and probably worth going.

But yeah, I'm not.

Dave Matthews, I don't think sucks at all.

Oh, I thought you did.

I thought we were all three in agreement.

No, no, no, no, no, no.

I'm not in real interest.

I'm not a big fan of his catalog.

So I don't really need to go to shows,

but I like Dave Matthews a lot,

a hell of a lot better than I like Dave Grohl these days.

Sorry, I didn't mean to throw you in that.

No, no, no.

That is the only band, Brian, and this is the truth.

If I'm driving in the car and my mind is a thousand miles

away and he comes on the radio,

I start shaking and I gotta hit a button.

And I don't know why.

I don't, I really don't know why.

I mean.

Well, Counting Crows for me would be the one

I would want to see if I had to pick one, you know.

Oh, I'd rather.

Four non-blondes is on this one.

Yeah, four non-blondes is on there.

The Flaming Lips are on there.

That too, yeah.

Father John Misty, yeah.

Violet Finn and four non-

Our friends, Hey Nothing are on there.

Yeah, Hey Nothing, all the way at the bottom of that thing.

Yeah.

I mean, we could spend an hour longer.

I know, when are we going to go?

And then just quickly, we've never talked about it before,

but this Summerfest in Milwaukee, if it wasn't for,

if it wasn't for this Bourbon and Beyond,

we would be looking at this as like, wow,

this is pretty, pretty, pretty strong.

And you look at it now, it's not really,

cause the headliners are not near as good,

but Summerfest has been around for like 40 years

or maybe even 50 at this point.

Like it is like our Riverbend County Fair-esque,

except they have good acts.

We didn't get great acts at our local festival

that's long gone now, but-

That's not true.

Well, to the level that this Summerfest does,

this thing- 100% agree with that.

Every year, I mean, it's in Milwaukee,

so we're talking about not a top 20 market necessarily,

but certainly a top 50.

Plus it's four different weekends here.

Yeah, it goes-

I mean, they got Jelly Roll, Muse, Ed Sheeran.

I mean, these headlines are actually pretty good.

Post Malone.

Yeah, Muse.

Yeah, I haven't even gone, they cross,

they have a lot of the same as Bourbon and Beyond does.

And then they got several, Amel and the Sniffers,

which I have been starting to get familiar with

for Bonnarooo this year.

They'll be at Bonnarooo.

Flip Turns on here, Hot Mulligans on here.

These are all Bonnarooo acts.

Tosh, Sultana, if I said that right,

Jesus, this one gets better and better.

I love her.

The more I look at this,

it gets better and better and better here too.

Little Feet, Hailstorm, Hailstorm out of nowhere.

So they do things pretty cool,

but very different style of city festival

with more of a county fair aesthetic,

but never been, and I've never talked to anybody who's been.

You talked to me.

I haven't been.

My brothers played it.

My brothers, when they were with the band Overland,

used to play it back in the late 70s, 80s and loved it.

My brother, Bob, who hates everything,

had nothing but good things to say

about Milwaukee and Summerfest.

Well, Milwaukee.

It's been around that long.

Milwaukee is an incredibly cool city.

It's way underrated for how cool of a town it is.

I've been there twice.

I love it.

Get me out of Chicago.

Get me out of anywhere, South Bend.

Get me away from any of that down below the lakes.

Get me up around the corner.

I love Wisconsin and Milwaukee.

It's fun.

I've heard nothing, but just talking about legacy.

So right next to each other, Sticks and David Lee Roth.

But then also you get the Dream Academy.

Who knew they were still around?

The Family Stone, Alejandro Escovedo.

Christopher Cross.

Chris Cross.

Christopher Cross.

Not a good interview.

He was not a nice guy.

Echo and the Bunny Man are on this lineup.

Jim Croce's son, AJ is on this thing.

Modern English.

Oh my God.

10,000 Maniacs.

Gene Simmons band.

Yeah.

What is it?

Megadeth.

Yeah.

What's the modern English thing?

Gin Blossoms.

Flo Rida.

This is funny.

Bo Deens.

A lot of these bands are on Bo Deens.

Sister Hazel.

Spin Doctors.

Very much a river band.

Soul Asylum.

I know.

Buck Cherry, Living Color.

Buck Cherry, yeah.

Spin Doctors.

Soul Asylum.

I love Soul Asylum.

We've talked, y'all know I love Soul Asylum.

Jesus, this is a great lineup too.

I thought it was pretty good.

I think it gets better the further you go down.

It's kind of opposite of.

It sucks we're having another year of

which is the next festival to have a better lineup

than Bonnarooo.

And I'll put it down.

Oh, Megadeth and Spoon.

Did you guys say that already?

Spoon.

Yeah, Spoon is on there.

Candle Box.

Baha Men.

Oh my God.

But right below Baha Men,

what would DJ Jazzy Jeff be without Will Smith?

I don't know.

The Fresh Prince.

Somebody's gonna find out.

Living Color.

God, Living Color was great.

Yeah.

Lisa Lowe's at this too.

I mean, this is down on the,

can barely see with working eyes

how little like, oh man.

What a great, I mean,

between Jazz Fest, Summer Fest and Bourbon and Beyond.

What else is there?

Yeah, you could literally go to these two festivals

and probably what most of our playlists would be covered.

Yeah.

No doubt.

Yeah.

The Jayhawks, by the way,

if you've never seen the Jayhawks live

and they come to your town, go see them.

They are amazing.

Let's take a quick break.

All right.

All right, guys, we are three and a half coming on,

three and a half months away from the greatest June event

in our lives.

You guys ready?

No.

I am ready.

I am totally ready.

I will be.

I am not.

A couple of things I wanted to mention

about our beloved festival,

that it's just, right now, most of the online chatter

is nothing but negativity, like everywhere you go.

And I'm not gonna pile on or get involved

with that all that much.

I'm just using it as an observation,

but two things in the last couple of weeks.

So group, from what I understand,

and this is just via Reddit and a few other things,

really they're not selling group very well.

I mean, I think it's a good thing.

Really, they're not selling group very well.

Like, as far as the group camping,

you gotta get up to 24, and if you don't get to 24,

then they have some kind of process of combining.

I'm not very familiar with this process,

so I don't wanna talk about it with any kind of authority.

But a lot of the Reddit threads were talking about

how almost none of them, maybe only one,

has gotten to the 24.

Hit to that 24.

Doesn't mean they're gonna not do it,

and doesn't mean you can't.

No, don't be concerned.

You're still got a spot.

You still got a spot, no matter what.

It just might not be exactly what you expected,

but people who do this group thing have, I would hope,

a lot of patience and understanding

because of what the nature of it is.

It's really awesome when it's done well.

But so, I don't know, just one thing to discuss

amongst things you wanna discuss.

And then the other one, which comes in this,

it's in the same vein of a discussion,

and I'm sorry to be on the negative end of things,

but another price increase just hit,

and I don't know when the next price increase comes.

This has been baked into the festival formula

for selling tickets, the tiered pricing.

And it's almost a way to create a supply and demand push,

an extra amount of supply and demand.

The problem is when your demand isn't there,

and your supply is, and you continually raise prices

over and over, now it's not a cute, cool little idea,

it falls along with everything else

that every one of us have to deal with,

which is becoming again a problem like it was in 2022,

price increasing everywhere.

Because our world is on fire almost literally.

We're not paying attention to 20 cents here

and 30 cents here and a dollar and a half here.

I pay attention to everything I spend dollars on,

and it's going up and up and up and up and up

everywhere in my life.

And when I see, oh, and bond root tickets going up,

I don't think it's cute anymore.

I think, you know what, bad idea.

Maybe stop raising the prices

because no one's buying them anyway.

Maybe bail out of that idea and just say,

we're not raising our prices.

Just when you've got the money, buy tickets to our festival.

If it takes you a minute, we're not raising them.

We're not going to do that now.

I don't know.

It's just a messaging.

It's just like at one time tickets go up,

hurry, hurry, hurry, we want to save you money.

And now it's like, you're not saving me money.

I don't want the tickets anyway.

And you're going to, you know, like it's,

the attitude is different and I'm, I'm, that's all.

What are your thoughts, Russ?

These tiers, they're based on like number of tickets sold,

right, are supposed to be like,

there's so many in this group.

And that's how it's supposed to be.

That's what it used to be.

But you're right.

Yeah.

That and just to jump in, like Brian said, it's a push.

Oh, I better do it now and don't wait

because it's going to go up tomorrow.

Yes, exactly.

Well, yeah, but if the tickets aren't selling,

then theoretically they should have a bunch more tickets

at this tier, right?

Yeah, we, the numbers have, that's always been.

Well, they never tell the numbers.

We don't know how many tickets are in this group

and that group and you don't know how they're selling.

We don't, but there, you cannot make me believe

that they are running out of tickets in the last tier.

So now we're onto the next.

No, I agree with you.

Yeah, it sounds more just of an arbitrary price hike,

really.

It's the old formula.

They're just using the same formula

and it feels like in this setting,

maybe abort the old formula because I don't know.

Well, they're willing to abort everything else.

That's what I was kind of thinking of, number one.

Good point.

Number two, group.

I mean, group was, you talk about taking a risk

and in the past, it was a beautiful risk.

It was like, I'm gonna buy a ticket with the belief

that I'm gonna get thrown in with 25 or a hundred people

I've never met before and it's gonna be awesome.

Yeah.

Now it's like, I'm gonna do all of that and get there

and God forbid what happened last year happened.

I don't think it's that you're gonna get bad people.

I don't think it's either.

I think it's just, do I wanna take this risk

at this point with my money, my 20 cents

for this thing that's already a major risk?

Yeah, I think it's a combination of all of that.

It's the price, it's the, you know,

I mean, again, could be the lineup.

I don't know.

Well, and just to be clear, Barry, we've talked,

I know all three of us have talked about this.

The value for a Bonne Rouge ticket

as there is in the festival circuit.

Absolutely, it still is, but it doesn't change the optics

and the messaging of we're raising prices again.

We're raising prices again.

Guess what, buddy?

No one wants your tickets, raising prices again.

We don't want your tickets.

Yeah.

Right, like, and it creates a negative vibe online

instead of that, and it used to work.

Again, it used to work.

It was like, oh my God, they're about to go up

and I've got to get my last paycheck here

or put it on layaway.

I can't wait to go.

I don't want to get left out.

FOMO's killing me.

And now it's like, you know what?

You can have your FOMO.

And I think every industry is dealing with that right now.

Yes, and I think we're also going to have to revisit

the whole, the fact that they released the lineup

in early December versus the way they used to do it.

Because like right now,

not only are they increasing ticket prices,

but they're releasing, you know, as we said,

the wear stage lineup dropped huge with John,

but I mean, is that enough to,

is that enough to push a major ticket increase vibe?

There's also no late additions

like they've used to have in the past.

Right, not yet.

I don't believe there will be any, we'll see.

So that would gather excitement.

Every year it seemed like, and it's not every year,

but many years, Chapel obviously two years ago

is the one you can pick out.

But there's these, because of the excellent book,

booking of the show early,

there's something you didn't know.

And in four months, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,

whoa, we got this too.

Like there's, this lineup feels like the same day

it was released on December 3rd or whatever the fifth.

To you, and that's what I-

That same lineup as it was then.

That's what was so surprising to Russ and I

last week with John.

John was like, this moved it from a five to a seven.

Okay.

Just the wear lineup.

That's not you and me, you know,

I don't know that Closie or Big Gigantic does that for you.

Big Gigantic's a good pull.

I mean, that's a good pull.

I know that. Okay.

And moving it.

Moving it, I think moving it into that corner

where the comedy tent was is great.

I'm very excited about it.

That's probably what they should have done

instead of experiment with that infinity stage anyway.

I'm very excited about that.

Totally agree.

Also to that point,

we know it's gonna be a smaller footprint.

So if you are in group,

the good news is you're gonna be a lot closer to center room

than you've ever been before.

No matter what.

Probably.

Well, not if you're in group.

Group is not close to center room.

It will be, yes, it will.

It has to be, cause the whole footprint's shrinking.

They're not gonna just stick you way the heck out

where they used to have you.

And then you walk by empty spaces.

I don't know.

We'll see.

We'll have to see when they-

One of the things they've always been really good at

is making the farm feel packed.

No matter how many people are there.

They're gonna make it feel packed,

whether it is or not.

We learned that in 2016 the hard way.

But that's a good thing.

It gives it that vibe in my mind.

Yeah, I don't fault them for that at all.

And I don't mean to sound so angry about it.

It's just these price increases right now

are just on everything.

It's just a sensitive subject.

Five years ago, seven years ago, three years ago,

maybe not as much, but now something costs more.

It's like, I can't take this anymore.

Not another one.

My green onions are up 75 cents.

What are we doing here?

And so, maybe I'm bringing too much of my own anecdotes

of life into something that maybe other people

aren't thinking about as much.

I don't know.

I think a lot of people are thinking about it.

I don't think you're far off.

Price is a big deal to a lot of people.

It's just when the regular conversation is,

this lineup sucks, I don't like it.

And everything about Bonnaroo is nothing like it used to be,

which I, Brian, doesn't agree with.

I think Bonnaroo is very much what it used to be.

But when that's regular your conversation,

and then, hey, prices increase again, you know what?

I mean, yeah, this lineup I think was a harder sell

to a lot of people to begin with.

And it's now an even more harder sale when it's,

okay, well now it's more.

Now it's more.

Yeah, again, and again.

And oh, and it's gonna do it again.

Like, you know what?

You can have your ticket, Bonnaroo.

Like, I think that's what some people are thinking.

And I hate that, because I want it.

There's usually what, four tiers of pricing

that they go through.

I don't know what we're on now, but yeah.

I think we're on three.

I think we're on three.

And I don't know.

I don't agree with a lot of the negative commentary

on Reddit and other areas.

I don't agree with a lot of it.

Yeah, no.

But that's what it is.

That's what's happening.

Yeah, but that's also, I just thought of this.

You've been to every one, as I've said many, many times,

I've been to all but four.

How much do you think it's changed?

Overall?

Big picture.

Yeah, not just lineup specific, not just,

I mean, just big picture.

If we're saying that this is something different

and special and unique from anything else,

it's still exactly that.

I agree.

It's still exactly that.

I agree.

Is it the same as it was in 2007, eight and nine

and two and 12 and 17?

No, but that's nuance and minutia discussion.

Yeah.

I still love it.

I still love it as much as I do.

Yeah, yeah.

Is it different than anything else

and it has a unique factor like nobody else?

It's the exact same thing it's always been.

And that's a good thing.

Yeah, no, I think that's what you were expecting me to say.

And I hope, yeah.

Well, I wanted you to be honest and I knew you would,

but I mean, if anybody has a perspective.

Yeah, I mean, I don't like,

they've made changes that I have not approved of personally.

Sure, sure.

But I get over it in minutes and move along, you know?

And that's-

And then kind of see the wisdom or when they fail,

they fail and they fix it generally.

Well, I am actually concerned.

Like I don't like the commentary of,

well, it's gonna be better for us there

for the less crowded farm.

Okay.

I don't agree with that.

We need tickets sold.

Oh, sure, sure, sure, sure.

We need tickets sold.

We meaning anybody who cares about this.

Yeah, yeah.

Need tickets sold.

So like the, well, at least it'll be better for us.

You know, it really won't.

It's a good point, yeah.

Cause they'll shrink it down

and make you kind of crowded anyway.

And it doesn't- It's gotta make money.

Yeah, that's a great point.

It's gotta sell tickets.

It's got to.

And people were arguing about stuff

and someone came in, I wish I had it in front of me

and said, I'm not worried about the weather.

I'm worried about 30,000 tickets being sold.

And I usually don't get involved in any of these on Reddit

cause I don't want Bonnaroo people seeing me

doing these discussions, honest truth.

And I just said this, cause I don't care.

I'm not concerned about the weather.

No, that's a great point.

I'm not worried about the weather.

You shouldn't be either.

Nobody should be worried about the weather.

You should be worried about them only selling 30,000 tickets.

That's a great point.

I mean, the three of us give up a Sunday afternoon

or a Sunday morning to talk about this every week

because we love it.

And I wouldn't do that for anything else in my life.

Not even for a Def Leppard tour.

I can't think of anything.

I can't think of any,

not even my beloved Notre Dame football.

I can't think of anything, but point being-

I didn't mean to make a diatribe out of it.

No, no, I'm glad you brought it up.

Yeah, it's fine.

I am concerned about ticket prices.

I mean, ticket sales, I am as a consumer of this product

and a somewhat on the fringe of a part of,

I'm concerned about it.

I really am.

Sure, sure.

That's all?

I've told you guys, all I wanna do is this again next year.

That's my goal.

So yeah, I want it to be successful.

What were you gonna say, Raj?

Well, you know what's free?

What's still free?

I ping that.

You can subscribe to the podcast.

We do it every week for free.

There's a little bell right there.

Yeah.

That's why he's-

So, you know, yeah, like you said,

we're doing this every week and we have a lot of people

that listen every week and we appreciate it

and we wanna keep it free and we wanna keep doing it.

So yeah, of course we want Bonnaroo to continue

and we want them to sell a lot of tickets.

Yeah, we really do.

But anyway, hit that like and subscribe.

Any other, what else?

Did you guys see this that came across,

I think yesterday, the day before?

Members of Taimanpala, Geese, Pond,

and King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard

hit the studio together.

There was a little tease of a video of them jamming

basically in a studio.

I guess I didn't.

Probably in Australia, yeah.

And so, you know, no official announcement

has been made or anything, but there's, you know,

maybe we're getting like a psychedelic super group

going here.

That sounds a little obnoxious.

If they're all in the studio.

Thank you, I knew, my first thought was

that sounds like a terrible idea.

It might be, yeah.

Not all super groups are great.

No, no they're not.

That just, I mean, cause all those,

a lot of those bands make a lot of noise.

A lot of noodling, a lot of noodling.

Put them together.

Yeah.

That's interesting though.

I hope it's great.

We're making jokes, I think.

Yeah, there's just a short video clip out there.

I'm mostly making jokes.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

All right, well, as usual,

we said this'll be a 20 minute episode.

We're coming up on an hour, but I've enjoyed it very much.

Good stuff.

Yeah, we're glad to get you safely back

into your air chair.

Same for you.

Yeah, welcome back.

Back in the air chair.

Same for you and please hugs and kisses to Beth

and all that hugs and howdy.

And when you talk to her.

Oh, we got a good story, man.

We got a good story we'll tell on this show soon

of very well known musicians that are in a small club

down in her home club that she shoots for.

We'll, that long range tease.

We'll do that here soon.

Yeah, we'd love to have her back on and catch up with her.

Yeah.

All right.

We got a good one to talk about.

She's been a little bit flu like symptoms

since the Vegas trip, but yeah, we'll do that soon.

And thanks guys for making this work today

as we had to.

Thank you both for your patience.

All right, take care.

Peace.